Non Whiney Torque-Up Gears?

[MaciekA]

Also I've noticed after the last couple dozen builds/rebuilds that the single biggest contributor to gear whine (once you have play-less shimming across the mechbox) is the axial stress at the pinion-bevel mesh. Often to reduce the noise 5-fold it's been enough to simply lower the bevel (away from the pinion) by a single 0.1 to 0.2mm shim, transfer the shim to the other shaft end, and then move the motor down (away from the mechbox) by a scant 0.1mm. It's amazing what the tiniest adjustments will do to the sound of guns, and also surprising just how much friction can be generated by the slightest extra contact measured at the sub-millimeter level.

[THe_Silencer]

There's really no reason for you to be running torque-up gears anyways. AEG limits in Canada are usually in the low 400s for most fields and the vast majority of JG/XYT/stock gears are more than strong enough to pull such springs. You can get a good torque up motor for as little as $25 shipped. http://www.ebairsoft.com/high-tech-t...or-p-3536.html I've used this motor myself and while it's not the the most powerful neo motor I've used, it doesn't break a sweat pulling an M120 spring. It is stronger than a TM EG700/1000 and G&P M120 though. At <$25 it's w/o a doubt the best value motor I've ever seen.

Sorry I got off topic but I personally think it's better to stick to standard ratio or high speed gears since shorter gearbox cycles usually means less noise (on semi at least).

[vondnik]

The reason I use high torque gears in all my guns(even the ones shooting im the 340 range) is pretty simple: Battery life. Using a good old nicd 9.6v 1700mha i can run the gun all day without it dying on me and those that know me cam attest to the weoght of my trigger finger.... But yeah the do generate more noise than regular gears because of the theet ratio.

[Crunchmeister]

I run torque-up gears and motors in most of my guns too. It's why I can put way more rounds downrange on a small battery than most people can put out of a large sub-C pack.

But my biggest reason for a high torque setup is trigger response. When I pull the trigger, I don't want to wait for things to wind up before a shot. I want instant, snappy response. I only get that with a high torque setup. And yes, I have high torque setups in even my low fps indoor guns.

My gears of choice: Modify Smooth Modular. Probably the least noisy high torque gears I've heard. But obviously, high torque gears will always create more noise. That's just he nature of the beast. Using high torque and expecting no noise is like going swimming and expecting not to get wet.

[Renegade)]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

I run torque-up gears and motors in most of my guns too. It's why I can put way more rounds downrange on a small battery than most people can put out of a large sub-C pack.

But my biggest reason for a high torque setup is trigger response. When I pull the trigger, I don't want to wait for things to wind up before a shot. I want instant, snappy response. I only get that with a high torque setup. And yes, I have high torque setups in even my low fps indoor guns.

My gears of choice: Modify Smooth Modular. Probably the least noisy high torque gears I've heard. But obviously, high torque gears will always create more noise. That's just he nature of the beast. Using high torque and expecting no noise is like going swimming and expecting not to get wet.

Thats basically the bottom line answer I was looking for. I was hopeful, but its all good.

I love the idea of high speed, might help, or Ill just stick with my stock TM gears ive been running for years But to go up to the Lipo/LFpo, high speed might be the way to go. Always worth a try!

[Renegade)]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

Your path to happiness:

1) A peppy LiPo w/ MOSFET
2) A neodymium motor like the JG Blue (also sold as the Echo1 high torque motor)
3) High speed (eg: 13:1) gears
4) Lots of shimming
5) Good grease with PTFE (Teflon)

Some gears seem to make more noise than others, sometimes it's the number of teeth, sometimes it's the shimming, sometimes it's contact, sometimes it's the motor's pinion gear being too high, sometimes it's a lack of lubrication. Also sometimes it's the material that the gears are made out of. Softer gears can be quieter.

Torque-up gears are slow to wind up and have tons of tooth interactions to go through before your shot cycle is completed. I believe that torque up gears are essentially useless since you can buy a very high torque motor with neodymium magnets for next to nothing and you can feed it juice from a very high discharge LiPo and pair it with high speed gears to experience the sound of the gears for the least amount of time -- and M120 / M130 springs are oooh-ahhh scary boogeyman stuff to some folks, but in the grand scheme of things a piece of cake for a neo motor and non-lemon gears

You've got the ASCU already, so you've basically ensured you'll be safe using a high discharge LiPo... Go with the above and you will be very pleased.

My personal recipe:

1) SHS 13:1 gearset - have also tried the 15:1-ish set from Modify but it's expensive compared to the SHS and trigger response won't be as great.
2) Modify advanced shim set. 0.1mm shims are fantastic for the "finishing touches" on your shimming work.
3) Superlube - extremely cost-effective, verified to work on all sorts of airsoft setups, great grease, has PFTE.. etc (eBay -- 10-15 bucks got me two tubes that will literally last me a kajillion builds).
4) JG Blue / Echo1 high torque motor (35 - 40 bucks, very very strong magnets) - alternatives that also are working for me: G&P M160 (decent, though discontinued and expensive), Guarder Infinite Torque Up Motor (okay price at $67, but awesome performance and very strong magnets).
5) Deans or XT60 wiring -- interestingly enough I haven't had issues with gauges that are thinner than 16AWG
6) AWS Raptor or Extreme-Fire MOSFET.
7) Check piston's fitment in gearbox - my method is to remove mainspring, remove gears, put the piston in without the piston head, re-seal gearbox and ensure the piston can freely move up and down the track. I was surprised to come across some pistons that have trouble moving to and fro with this test and sometimes actually have a TON of friction. This check will further reduce heating problems and increase efficiency if you can find the perfect-fit piston.

Hope some of this helps!

This is worth a shot! SHS huh, never heard of them, but I think Ill give high speed gears a go, with my set up. Im not a Full auto type, usually semi and burst, but its nice to have the ability to put a ton of fire down range in a hurry if needed.

My purpose is as Vondnik said, battery life, but thats no longer a problem as I have a few Lfpo's going in.
Other purpose, get the bb on target faster with ROF and FPS. 390FPS right now, just looking to get the most out of it, without overdoing things with the batteries, while maintaining noise.

Thanks for the great responses!

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Renegade)

This is worth a shot! SHS huh, never heard of them, but I think Ill give high speed gears a go, with my set up. Im not a Full auto type, usually semi and burst, but its nice to have the ability to put a ton of fire down range in a hurry if needed.

My purpose is as Vondnik said, battery life, but thats no longer a problem as I have a few Lfpo's going in.
Other purpose, get the bb on target faster with ROF and FPS. 390FPS right now, just looking to get the most out of it, without overdoing things with the batteries, while maintaining noise.

Thanks for the great responses!

If overly fast rate of fire is a concern, you could also control your rate of fire to some degree just by sticking to 7.4V LiPos, or by choosing gears that are slightly less speedy (but still speedy) gears, like 15:1 or 16:1. Either way, the greater degree of motor-torque-to-speed-gear contrast you have, the zippier and more responsive your semi-shots will be, which will also cut down on perceived whine and noise (assuming you shim everything really nicely).

[Renegade)]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

If overly fast rate of fire is a concern, you could also control your rate of fire to some degree just by sticking to 7.4V LiPos, or by choosing gears that are slightly less speedy (but still speedy) gears, like 15:1 or 16:1. Either way, the greater degree of motor-torque-to-speed-gear contrast you have, the zippier and more responsive your semi-shots will be, which will also cut down on perceived whine and noise (assuming you shim everything really nicely).

Its not, noise is ROF is just fun!