P90 related drills

[FOX_111]

If you got any documentation, video or personnal experiance regarding drills using a P90, please post.

The P90 is a weapon platforme that require some special trainning, as the mags don't load like other platformes and the pouches don't generally function like "short" mag pouches. Dump pouches work only for standing CQB, as the mags will fall out the dump pouche if crawling.

So, how do you speed reload that beast?


Personally, I store my mags in 4 single vertical pouches, on my plate carrier. When reloading, I take out the empty mag, and still holing it, swap it for a fresh one that I insert in the gun. I replace the empty one in the pouche, making sure the feet lips are facing out, so by touch, I know that it's an empty mag.

All my full mags have the feeding lips facing in. I also keep the lips on the upside, so when I grab the mag, it's already in the correct position for a reload.

When doing a tac-reload, I remove the mag then tilt the gun 45 degree inward to it's side in a violent manner, so the 3 BBs fall out of the "mag well". Failure to do so will result in a badly seated mag.

P90 rule for CQB.

[oOMuDOo]

I pretty much do the same but usually strike the mag with my fist as a sorta finishing move to assure that its seated all the way.

I also have a slung active shooter quad vest (was custom made by HellRanger)
I tend to unload the mags & dump it in my left pant pocket or cargo pocket.
Then draw a fresh mag from the rig, insert it all the way into the well, Strike it.

ready to fire.

In a lul of the action i consolidate my empty mags out of my cargo pocket, back into my chest rig.

Thus ntil i get to a safezone and fully reload my loadout.

[Oborous]

Have you tried something like this: P90 Panel

Also, have you tried canting your pouches at an angle to make the draw easier? I don't have that much experience with the P90 platform, mainly borrowing from Azathoth, so I'm only running P90 plus 1 spare mag when I borrow it. Azathtoth is running a Tactical Tailor shoulder MOLLE harness with 45º adapter for easier draw.

Oborous

[Millhouse]

Not much training really to do, Mind you this was my first airsoft, and as such my drills were started with this and then moved on to the more commonly available models.

I have pouches mounted upside down on my belly rig on my left side, Facilitating a nice smooth pull down when it's time to reload. Coupled with a large dump pouch back mounted on a tac belt.

My reload drill is as follows;

When the mag goes dry, lower p90 to a 45 degree angle and slide the mag out with my left, depending on time allowed the mag is either dropped to the ground, or placed in the dump pouch. With my left hand now freed up, the buckle is pinched and a fresh mag pulled out in as smooth a motion as possible (muscle memory is your friend here).

As the arm swings out in a tight arc, gripping the mags as one would a knife in an ice pick grip, the mag is seated in the mag well as a samurai of old would sheath his sword. with the mag now orientated in to the magwell, a firm push with the thumb as you slide your hand back to the front of the gun will seat the mag.

The spent mag would then be retrieved during a lull and placed in the dump if it had not been already.

Still trying to figure out a good transition to empty hand set up and maneuver that won't end up with 5 lbs of gun taking out my balls... :O

Any thoughts?

[Azathoth]

I love this thread...

The biggest problem I find with the P90 is a good sling system that will let you

1. Get to your mags
2. Get to your side arm
3. Retain your weapon close to the body when dropped.

What are you guys using?

I haven't found a solution yet and I'm tempted to try hollywood slings (Read Stargate) before i buy mounting brackets etc for the gun.

I run A large rolly polly for a dump, it easily fits a P90 Mag and with the drawstring partially tightened you can crawl and prone without losing a mag. I carry 3 mags on Left leg, and 2 under my Right Arm, canted 45degrees, 1 in gun.. If you are going to mount P90 to a rig, IMO the best way to mount is at a 45 degree angle to improve easy of draw. Another option is to mount the mag pouches upside down and high so you can draw them downward.

I've found that with the P90 the order of operation is reverse of a M4 for reloads. On the M4 I get the fresh mag out the pouch first, where as I will extract the empty first with the P90.

I havent practiced a tactical or admin reload where i start with a fresh mag...

When i reload I usually don't cant the gun, I don't feel it's necessary to clear those BB's that are sitting in the loading chamber as I've never had a problem, and unlike other AEG's you can fire these BB's while reloading.


I dont slam down on the mag to ensure it's seated. too afraid of damaging the hopup, I just press down firmly.

[cbcsteve]

For those who are hard pressed for P90 Gear no worries, took me awhile to find this but was referred to it by another player

Custom Gear for P90
http://www.thevestguy.com/category.asp?id=169
*Slings too!

I like the dump pouch as you can tell you can just shove in your mag and the way its pocketed looks like it won't fall out unless you fall down a hill or somehow are upside down

[Brian McIlmoyle]

For exactly the reasons stated... , difficulty in reloading... as it takes the weak hand to dump the mag and to get a new one, This coupled with the magazine storage and retention issues make it a bad choice for CQB.

the P90 is not a good weapon to get into a fight with.

It is a good weapon to get out of one with.. due to its compact nature and ease of use, along with its high capacity magazine. It was designed as a PDW for people not expected to fight. and it should be left to its intended use.

I adopted the P90 early .. ran it a year and then dumped it in favour of a "proper" SMG, the MP5, which has easy mag storage ,simple and quick mag changes .. There is a reason why the MP5 is the go to gun for a subcaliber machine gun planet wide.

So.. you could learn drills to try to speed up the use of a weapon for an unintended purpose.. or you could get a weapon designed for that purpose and start out faster to begin with

( sorry for thread jack )

[Flying Squirrel]

Its great as a secondary for a sharpshooter

[FOX_111]

Brian, you are right about the fact that it's not a fast gun to reload.

Ruling it out completely though, I'm not so sure.

Real steel wise, using the 5.7mm ammo is a + if facing threats using body armor. Yes it has less punch than 9mm, but at least you are making them bleed where it count. Our local SWAT think like that too.

Airsoft wise, the P90 version6 gearbox is very well made and can resist to heavy upgraded springs with only a bushing change. Mine run a 450fps spring and only my bushings have been changed. I also have a large J 9.6v battery to drive it fast and crisp. That gun is responsive.

The trigger allowing both single and full auto when set to full auto is also a good thing to have. Full auto at the ready, single shots possible if need be.

Once fitted with a supressor, it's one of the quietest, if not the most quiet AEG on the market, stock.


Some mentionned carrying mages in 45 degrees pouches. I never tried it, but I find that this setup waist space, or make a bigger profile if carried under arms.

I can fit 4 pouches on my chest plate. I could use double pouches to bump it to 8 mags at the front. IMO, it would be better to run 4 at the front and 2-3 on a leg. I never carry mags where my left hand can't reach them in normal condition.

Sling wise, I tried a modified 3 points sling. I did not liked it. I tried the Stargate Sling... I plain hated it. Not to mention that the one I bought was made by someone that never handled a gun in his life: the sling made gun handling impossible if installed like it was designed to.

I now run a custom 1 point sling that attach to my plate carrier. Similar to those bungee sling made for armalite. I do my own slings, since the one I see are either too crappy, or too expensive. My current sling work very well and can be detached in one move. The weapon can rest sentered on my body, on to the side. The only thing I miss, is the possibility to sling it to my back, like the Magpull "Ã* la mode" M4 1 point sling. What console me, my sling costed me 1$ to make and only 15 minutes on the sewing machine. All the parts where recycled from by old custom 3 points.

[HeadlessChicken]

Originally Posted by FOX_111

Sling wise, I tried a modified 3 points sling. I did not liked it. I tried the Stargate Sling... I plain hated it. Not to mention that the one I bought was made by someone that never handled a gun in his life: the sling made gun handling impossible if installed like it was designed to.

Refering to the stargte sling from TheVestGuy? I've been pondering buying 1.

[FOX_111]

Originally Posted by HeadlessChicken

Refering to the stargte sling from TheVestGuy? I've been pondering buying 1.

Yeah, basically the same. I had one like that, but without the harnest. Only the Y shaped attachement and the weapon attachement. It was ment to clip on a tactical vest.

IMO, it's a poor sling. Has it force you to have the gun hanging at the center of your body. Making climbing a ladder impossible, or simply transitionning to a pistol and walking/running difficult. It also make it hard to access pouches on your vest and attaching it to you is hard if you are wearing armor orther than a conceallable vest.

[DarkAngel]

I tend to run my p90 as my secondary. Its a fantastic Gun, and while i agree the reloading may be one of the major flaws. I havent yet to run into a serious problem where i was caught with my pants down while using my P90.

Mine uses the regular Milspec P90 two point sling, Often slung on my back and it tends to hug my body pretty well that I can climb ladders, traverse DENSE forest (the kind with the trees pressed against you at almost all times, run without worry etc. It takes only one hand to reach back and snatch it + fire.

My P90 Pouches are on the back of my CIRAS, On top of my hydration sack and upsidedown for easy reach. Makes for 1 stop shopping. 1 movement to unload, drop mag in dump on the way to reaching my back to draw a mag and another to slap it in.

I do Slap my mags in, It hasnt ever damaged my hop up. I found that the best strategy Ive had success with in using the P90 was running and gunning. During one of Marac's Games, I was successful in almost single handedly taking out 7 Enemy players (1 mercy + 5 kills) and 1 Teammate (Shush! I was in an adrenaline rush and I Mistook his uniform) without being hit once.

I attribute a few factors which greatly helped in this success
Bullpup - Allowed for MUCH faster draw + fire times as many shots were taken at waist level
Fast ROF - I have a Systema Turbo, Bearings, + Sanyo 9.6 J Batt. A quick burst of 5-10 per target was pretty much confirmed as a kill. I didnt even have to worry about confirming the kill as the rof was fast enough to string it across someone (This was outdoor CQB in new FR, I dont recommend high ROF guns in true close quarters CQB. Dont forget to mercy those that are too close). (This is also attributed to the stock TM spring inside. Upgrading the FPS is not neccessary as it will 1) slow down the ROF, 2) you dont want to hurt someone in CQB, 280fps is more than enough to do the job at the range the P90 is designed for)
Quick Trigger Reaction - Ive had VERY good results with the P90 switch. You can semi easily while on full auto which saves you the time of having to move the selector to switch firing modes when in a jam, and the reaction time is VERY fast with the V6 box.

The only time i ever had to stop running throughout the whole scenario was to reload. And yes, It was a good few seconds of hiding behind cover to change mags. (which ultimately, though most would say a few seconds is ok) stops your advance. In CQB, the key is to keep pushing foreward and pressure the opposing force to retreat. Even a few seconds of a stopped advance gives the opponent time to regroup and reform.

Really, kills arnt what its about. Im not trying to be a one man army and this is just an extreme example that was obviously a matter of being at the right place at the right time. But I think it illustrates the benefits + disbenefits of the P90 quite well.

Im also by no means an expert at operating a P90, If theres anyone in the authority to demonstrate or run a P90 clinic. Im sure there would be many willing students, Myself included.

[HeadlessChicken]

Well I have a CA90 which I've been planning on hitting TTAC3 with if I can ever match up schedules. I don't have a sling for it, was planning on getting that sling systems from VestGuy, use my Pantac SWAT style vest over it, and stick with my leg mag pouch. I did some reloading drills with this setup minus the sling, works decent though its not exactly lightening fast.

[Jayne Finch]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

I love this thread...

What are you guys using?

I haven't found a solution yet and I'm tempted to try hollywood slings (Read Stargate) before i buy mounting brackets etc for the gun.

i made my own. it runs from the thumb hole around the buttplate with a second strap running around the stock about an inch in from the back. i use a climbing caribener that attaches to a loop i left on the end of the sling and then clips to my ciras vest on the right hand shoulder strap. its always close to my shoulder and if i drop it it hangs out of the way just ahead of my arm.

kinda looks like this:

[FOX_111]

Is that a paintball P90?