AK-47 Folding Stock

[Latvian291]

I am planning a custom project for a firearm and I want to add the Ak-47 folding stock that Marui makes for the Ak-s. Now, I am not concerned with the quality of the folding stock (its only going to be a .22), but I am curious as to the operation of it and I want to know more before I buy one. I may buy one without this information seeing as how I do not expect any one of you will take so much time to explain the hinge operation or take a few pictures to illustrate.

However, if one of you would be so kind as to illustrate how the hinge works. Could you perhaps tell me whether I could buy the folding stock alone (without the receiver) and still get it to operate, say, on a wooden stock by attaching something or cutting the appropriate grooves?

I imagine the stock being made of spring steel and when you rotate it it simply snaps into and out of position by the tension of the wire stock pulling in toward the receiver. Am I right?

*FYI there are no legal issues with this conversion. I am a PAL holder and I am versed in Canadian firearms laws*

[Greylocks]

Shortening a real gun yourself (first problem) and under a certain lenght when folded (problem number two) is illegal.
Are you a licensed gunsmith?

[Latvian291]

First response: the minimum length for a non-restricted firearm, while remaining operational, is 26 inches or 660mm (with the minimum barrel length being around 470mm). My project will be legal and I have never had the intention of breaking any law. If I did shorten it beyond this length it would still not be illegal, merely requiring re-registration as a restricted firearm which I am also liscenced to possess.

Second respsonse: My project requires no "gunsmithing" merely a custom stock (which anyone can install themselves). Folding and telescoping stocks are legal, the only stocks that are illegal are bullpups. An hilarious illustration of this is the Walther G22 which is non-restricted but has a prohibited stock!

[Lakonian]

"Folding and telescoping stocks are legal, the only stocks that are illegal are bullpups. An hilarious illustration of this is the Walther G22 which is non-restricted but has a prohibited stock!"

hahahaha. wow, that's pretty useless..

[Greylocks]

Grey spot on the law that you missed; modifying a real gun with a part made for a real gun (if it breaks no other laws) is permitted.
Modifying a real gun with a part not meant for a real gun (an airsoft part) is not legal.

Yes, it makes very little sense.

[Latvian291]

That sounds dubious....

but not unlike the Canadian government. I would call the CFC and ask them... although most of the time I can stump them with a single question.

So why would I not buy a real AK folding stock? Well - I can't seem to find one like the Marui one.. they are all sidefolders!

seems like a waste on a .22

[Gryphon]

Originally Posted by Submachinehead

That sounds dubious....

It is. Greylocks often speaks out of his ass but thinks he knows everything by virtue of his age alone. He once tried to tell us that by putting a TK twist barrel into a GBB that it would become a firearm. :roll:

As for the stock, I highly recommend you seek a real underfolder instead. The Marui one is crap and I've heard nothing but bad stories about them breaking. The mounting hardware is a weak point as the hinge is attached directly to the receiver sides and doesn't pass through the body of the gun; the gearbox is in the way. A real underfolder has a large pin that the stock pivots on which travels through the receiver and is far more sturdy. The stock and parts you get will also be steel rather than pot metal. It's not overkill, it's simply quality. I don't even think you can get the airsoft mounting hardware separate, it took me many months of searching to find it for a project.

If you put up a want-ad on CGN you should get a few hits. I got a Bulgarian underfolder new in the package for around $100 from a guy in Saskatchewan for my AKSU-47 and it was far superior to the Marui stock, even if it was still using the flawed Marui mounting hardware.

[Greylocks]

Gryphon, if you are going to quote/ream what I said about rifling and what it means, at least be smart enough to quote it exactly.
If you dont believe me, start digging into the laws. When you have found those, ask to read the Policies. That's were we get screwed.

The HUGE problem with any law and regulation that applies to Airsoft (and in this case their parts) is in how they get interpreted according to internal policies, and the ignorance of the person in charge of making the call. Nothing is worse than a mandated official who knows nothing but gets to decide your fate.

If the laws were crystal clear, I'd tell you to go for it. They are not. So what I'm trying to prevent is for anyone, even you, being screwed for doing what you think was right.

So instead of dismissing what I know, do the math; I've been doing this for about the same amount of time you've been alive. Maybe I've seen it happen before? Maybe I did my research too? Maybe I had to deal with those stupid policies in person?

The laws about guns, and things that look like guns, in Canada are STUPID. There is NO logic to them, that is 100% true. And because there is no logic, everyone must be a perfect little citizen and not do anything that comes even close to being controversial. So hate me for pointing out the obvious all you want or learn to read between the lines.

[Latvian291]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

The HUGE problem with any law and regulation that applies to Airsoft (and in this case their parts) is in how they get interpreted according to internal policies, and the ignorance of the person in charge of making the call. Nothing is worse than a mandated official who knows nothing but gets to decide your fate.

It's Kafkaesque!!!

Thanks Gryphon. I think I will take your advice. The reason I am doing this on a .22 is because it's cheap to fire. My other project idea was to make an M1-Carbine (para) look alike out of the "new" Norinco JW14 which already looks a bit like the gun. They don't make an airsoft version of the folding stock for that one.

The idea would be to have a WWII firearm that first of all is non-restricted and secondly is cheap to shoot (the real M1 Carbine is restricted, which I can own, but they require stupid storage - I like to look at my guns).

[vondnik]

I bought a pair of underfolding real steel ak stocks of E-bay no later than last weeks

[666]

k-var has them for $70 US.
akparts.com $100

[Greylocks]

That's the stupid part; you can do this with real gun parts, but not airsoft parts. I stopped asking why over 25 years ago.

[Latvian291]

Greylocks: I called the CFC in Ottawa and talked to a "firearms analyst" who is specially trained in modifications to firearms which the agency noted was a "finicky" subject. (Only in Canada eh?)

He (Andrew) said unequivically that there is no legal prohibitions on adding a BB gun part to a firearm (so long as it is not a prohibited device in itself i.e. a flashhider or bullpup stock).

I told him I heard that it was illegal to add a part to a firearm that was not intended for a firearm, and he quipped in a French accent: "I don' know where you got dat."

[Greylocks]

So after reading all about the CFC, you believe a single thing they say? They are the ones coming out with the weirdest policies on the planet. Read the Auditor General's report.
I had to apply those policies in the field and sign for Restricted/Prohibited carrying permits.
Your call on who you prefer to listen to; a government employee on someone who'se done it.
There are times when experience does count. This is one of those times.
Did he say BB gun parts, or airsoft (replica) gun parts? With those guys you must be 100% literal and take the name/contact of the person too. Get it in writing.