Frontenac Cadpat?

[Bravo Two Zero]

I just received my order of Frontenac Cadpat from North Door Way and the camo pattern looks diferent from the set I order from them a year or two ago. I also notice that the new combats I received from them have name tape's which read cadpat instead of Frontenac which are on the old one's.

Is this new pattern with the name tapes that read cadpat the same pattern as the CF issue one's or did frontenac quit using the issue pattern's that was rejected from government inspections?. I've posted picture's below of the old and new combats. Thanks.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/attachm...tid=1787&stc=1

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/attachm...tid=1788&stc=1

Its the CADPAT pattern, but the design of the frontenac uniform is not the same as the CF issue.

An I haven't seen any issue CADPAT uniforms with the same colors as that new Frontenac uniform.

[Bravo Two Zero]

Thanks for the reply. The colors on the new Frontenac cadpat I have doesn't seem to be as good as the old ones I have which sucks cause this was the best camo I have ever used in my life, much better then marpat the ACU I've used. I guess I'll just keep look out for CF issue cadpat on Ebay. I'm not to sure on how to read the size's that are in 4 numbers, from the looks of it the first two numbers represent the height the last two numbers represent the chest or waist size, is this correct?.

[BC_K]

Yes that would be how to read the sizes on them.

Your cadpat's look different because since the original relaese of them, there have been newer versions of them that came out.

That should hopefully explain why they are different.

[Goldman]

how many times has the set your comparing it to been washed? Fading makes quite the difference

Frontenac's pattern has changed between the first release and the current release. Both the cut of the clothing and the colors in the cadpat pattern have been altered.

[SKULLBOY]

The Original CADPAT used Dark Brown as one of the colors, which was replaced by a pinkish brown in the next generation of CADPAT.

Personally, I prefer the Original style with the darl brown.

Also, Frontenac BDUs lack the double seat in the pants, and the seams didn't seem to be as good as the issue items.

SKBY.

[Bravo Two Zero]

Thanks for all the replys, just found this link on the Army's site with a cadpat picture thats very close to the new stuff I got. Thanks.

http://www.army.gc.ca/Chief_Land_Sta...621&Photo=4024

[soldiers301]

The only reason why the colour change between different Frontenac BDU is the material. All the frontenac CADPAT material is stuff that has been rejected by DND cause of the lack of quality. The fabric used for Frontenac item is NOT the same as the issued one. Material for frontenac BDU is real CADPAT, but it is not a good quality material like on the issued one.

If you look closer to different issued BDU you will se a little difference in the colour too. Take a look at 2001 BDU and 2004 BDU, there is a difference in colour. The latest version of the fabric is the one used for the BDU with the covered buttons.

[recon]

Sorry Soldier3021, your information is bullcrap, Frontenac is not nor has it ever been rejected material. Have you EVER seen a pair of worn out Frontenac Cadpat pants......NO. Have you ever seen worn out issue pants......yes......I have both, the stitching in the issue pants is superior, but the stitching was still there when the material crumbled and became threadbare in no time flat......I still have my oroginal frontenac pants with absolutely no sign of wear and I sincerely doubt anyone has worn them as much as I do. For some reason reservists think they have a heads up on this, in fact it is usually a heads down, Frontenac lasts WAAAAAAAAY longer ask anyone on Team Wolfpack. I do like the feel of my issue stuff better, but it NEVER lasts 25% of the time Frontenac does.

[soldiers301]

Sorry recon but believe it or not the material used for making Frontenac Stuff is the fabric that has been rejected by DND. Yeah I already seen a pair of Frontenac pants, and yeah they could last longer but this is not military specs material, so this is rejected by DND. The print quality is not the same as the issued one and could not offer IR protection.

I dont mean that Frontenac CADPAT is crap, it is just rejected by DND cause of its general quality.

[BawBag]

Isn't Frontenac CADPAT just normal material that has a pattern on it that just so happens to look like CADPAT. I've never heard before about it being rejected. One person who would/can find out for sure is Droc, maybe you two can contact him and ask really nicely.

[CDN_Stalker]

Someone, somewhere posted this a while back, and I kept it cuz it's got interesting reading. I posted in on our team forum, so I just peeled it from there.

Originally Posted by Stalker

Found this on the canadian gun nutz website. Good info and dispells a lot of myths regarding cadpat material and manufacturers like Parklands.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...ad.php?t=23530

"You're question is timely, as it addresses one of the most confusing and misunderstood aspects of the international camouflage collecting hobby. I will try to keep my explanation simple, but understand that it is a rather complex subject further obfuscated by outright lies and misrepresentation.

First and foremost, you need to understand the difference between "GENUINE ISSUE CADPAT MATERIAL" and "GENUINE DND-ISSUE CADPAT CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT". The reason will become clear.

There are a handful of Canadian Government-contracted textile mills who are authorized to produce genuine mil-spec CADPAT MATERIAL with the proprietary anti-IR coating, etc. Peerless Garments Ltd (clothing), Fellfab (Tactical Vests) and Pacific Safety Products (Frag Vests and Covers) all use that DND-contracted material to produce genuine-issue CADPAT clothing and equipment for DND. At the same time, DND authorizes a very small group of civilian manufacturers to obtain mil-spec CADPAT material from the government-contracted textile mills for the purposes of producing after-market (eg. civilian-sales) items. This does NOT mean that those after-market companies produce "GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT CLOTHING or EQUIPMENT". All it means is that they can access "GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT MATERIAL". This may seem like a rather inconsequential difference at first blush, but it is not. Those who are dishonest, will claim that they are selling "GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT", and leave it to your imagination to assume that this means that they are selling genuine-issue clothing. But of course, they are not. What these purveyors of inferior CADPAT clothing aren't telling you is that they are not (nor are they permitted to) sell "GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT. They are simply selling after-market clothing (some good, and some horrible) manufactured from "GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT" Material. Can you see the distinction yet?

There are (to my knowledge) three civilian manufacturers who are authorized by DND to procure genuine mil-spec CADPAT material. These are Frontenac (a former DND uniform contractor), Drop Zone (a highly-regarded after-market kit manufacturer), and Wheeler's/Canadian Peacekeeper (who produce load-bearing and storage kit of varying quality/utility). Anyone else who claims that they are "licensed" to procure genuine CADPAT material from the contracted textile mills is either misleading the purchaser, or they are outright lying. How do they manage to mislead? Simple - they make a "back-door" arrangement with one of the authorized civilian manufacturers to receive "seconds" and/or "rejects" material. They then "piggyback" their authorization onto one of the 3 appropriately licensed manufacturers and pretend that "by extension" they are also licensed. Utter and complete bullshit of course, but by playing with words they can make themselves seem "legit". I won't name names, but if you are buying after-market (eg. non-DND-issue) CADPAT products from anyone other than Drop Zone, Frontenac or Wheelers, you are buying "genuine" CADPAT made with second-hand material. And you should then strongly question whether or not that material is genuine DND-contract.

Why the question about CADPAT MATERIAL authenticity? Simply because there are numerous overseas factories producing knock-off CADPAT material. I know for a fact that CADPAT has been mimicked by Asian manufacturers (eg. Hong Kong) for the international airsoft market. I personally own a "CADPAT" patrol cap in 100% Cotton that is tagged "made in Pakistan". The colours are bang-on, but the material and construction are totally wrong. Need I say more about the numerous foreign copies of CADPAT MATERIAL? Wherever there is an international market, there are very credible knock-offs. Believe it or not, the limited availability makes CADPAT one of the most highly desireable camouflage patterns on the international market.

So, let's recap. We have GENUINE CADPAT MATERIAL, which is the mil-spec fabric produced by the DND-contracted mills. There are 3 licensed civilian manufacturers, and everyone else is either lying, "splitting hairs" with 2nd-hand "back-door" acquisition, or copying the pattern off-shore. Note that none of the above produce GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT (vice the material itself).

The production of genuine-issue CADPAT clothing is confined exclusively to "Peerless Garments Ltd", of Winnipeg MB. The manufacture of CADPAT equipment such as Tactical Vests, Goretex Rainwear, Bivvy Bags, Small Packs, Frag Vest Covers, etc, falls to several companies such as Pacific Safety Products and Fellfab. The key point is that every GENUINE-ISSUE item of CADPAT clothing or equipment contains a DND tag. The official DND tags are very distinctive. Other than the intial 2001 initial production-run of official-issue CADPAT clothing (which were printed with black ink on white material), the DND tags are Olive Drab with black printing. They are bilingual English/French, and contain the manufacturer's information, the government contract number, the NATO Standarization Agreement (NATO STANAG) stock number, the size, etc. Those who are interested can e-mail me at "Bartok5@rogers.com" for a photo of a genuine DND tag.

Suffice it to say that any vendor who cannot offer a photo of their item's DND tag is either producing an after-market item, or a low-rent copy. The distinction between the two is very important. Drop Zone manufactures after-market items of exceptional quality which easily exceed the genuine DND items of clothing and equipment. They are duly DND-licensed to procure GENUINE CADPAT MATERIAL from the government-contracted textile mills. They simply aren't allowed to produce items which closely mimic the genuine-issue clothing and equipment. Not that anyone would necessarily want to...

On the "low-rent" side, we have Frontenac, a Quebec-based former DND-contractor for the obsolete OG uniforms. My sources tell me that they were granted access to the genuine CADPAT material as a "consolation prize" for having lost the DND uniform contract to Peerless Garments. Thus, they are permitted to access the GENUINE ISSUE material, but only to produce clothing which bears no visible appearance to the actual CF uniform. Hence the reason that the Frontenac CADPAT TW and AR uniforms feature a distinctively different pocket layout, button closures, etc. Furthermore, Frontenac (slit your own throat) have elected to render their "commercial uniforms" in the cheapest of all possible forms. No reinforced elbows on the shirts, no reinforced seat or knees on the trousers, etc, etc.

Wheeler's/Canadian Peacekeeper falls somewhere in between the outstanding quality of Drop Zone, and the abject shite of Frontenac WRT licensed CADPAT manufacture. The don't produce clothing - only pouches, packs and associated "accessories". Some of it is very good, and some of it is crap intended for the "garrison commando" crowd.

Moving on, we have the layman's connundrum of eBay. Here is where all of the above variables mesh in a very confusing and misleading miasma. Do a search for "CADPAT", and you are presented with a combination of dealers offering the "GENUINE CADPAT" clothing (which is genuine material, but not genuine-issue clothing), "GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT CLOTHING" (which is the real deal in term of both material and cut, but wait for it.....), and "CADPAT" (which could be anything from genuine material and after-market manufacture, to Pakistani-produced knock-off material and clothing). eBay is most definitely "buyer beware" territory. "Genuine CADPAT" means absolutely NOTHING on eBay!.

To further confuse the issue, we occasionally encounter "GENUINE-ISSUE CADPAT CLOTHING" on eBay. Here, there are 2 possible sources. The first, is used or defective "seconds" military-issue CADPAT clothing that was mistakenly sold as surplus by Base Supply Organizations who dicked up and did not follow DND direction that any and all non-serviceable CADPAT items are to be "rendered to rags" before selling as scrap. Some Base supply sections did not follow this directive (before getting their pee-pee's soundly slapped), and as a result there IS some genuine DND-issue CADPAT clothing for sale on the open market. It is all either used, or damaged, or otherwise determined to be "non-serviceable" (eg. no suitable for re-issue to a serving soldier). The case in Alberta where Edmonton Garrison sold off many tri-walls of used and defective CADPAT combat clothing to a local entrepreneur and then tried (abortively to claim it back) is a case in point. As a result, there are now many thousands of used and defective genuine-issue CADPAT uniforms available for sale on the open market (eBay included). Good going guys....

The other source of genuine DND-Issue CADPAT available on eBay are uniforms that were stolen directly from the CF supply system. These tend to be the "mint/unissued" uniforms that are offered from time to time, usually by UK or US-based sellers. Why the foreign offerings? Very simple - those who are actively stealing genuine DND-issue CADPAT uniforms and equipment (Tac-Vests, Bivvy Bags, etc) from within the CF supply system know that the Military Police have a mandate to aggressively pursue such breaches of operational security, and therefore flog their stolen goods through off-shore second parties. It is safe to say that anyone who chooses to purchase a mint-condition DND-issued item of CADPAT (uniform, Tac Vest, etc) from a foreign seller on eBay is trafficking in unquestionably stolen goods. As always, conscience contends with opportunity....

I'm sorry to say that I am hard-pressed to summarize what I know based on my personal study of the "CADPAT Sales" conundrum. As you can see, there are so many variables, that one simply has to be "in the know" to make an educated decision. At the end of the day, I recommend avoiding (at all costs) any CADPAT item that doesn't feature a genuine DND tag. The exception to the rule are items that are manufactured by Drop Zone or Wheelers/Canadian Peacekeeper (and in the case of the latter, entirely depending on what you want). Having established that first criteria, I recommend against dealing with anyone outside of Canada. You will either receive stolen DND property (via a round-about circuit), or an Asian knock-off. Either way, there is considerable risk involved.

My apologies if my explanation regarding the intricacies of "CADPAT" purchase is not clear. Such is the very nature of the beast. It is a very convoluted and deceptive matter, by simple virtue of the camouflage pattern's international desireabilty. Don't believe me? Check out the Philippines Airsoft form ("www.filairsoft.com") and do a search under "CADPAT". Prepare to be amazed by the degree of interest in our Canadian camouflage pattern...

I hope that this helps. If you are looking to purchase CADPAT, then by all means feel free to drop me a line, preferably with a direct link to whatever item you are considering. I will do my best to give you a positive ID and non-judgemental opinion of value.

Failing that, best of luck. There are far more intentionally-decieving pit-falls WRT civilian CADPAT procurement than there are straight-up deals.....

And BawBag, I think the only authentic cadpat material Droc has knowledge of is the cordura types, not the cotton/nylon clothing material.

Regarding Fronetnac, it's sturdy and well made stuff. And, you can make it more effective by washing it with bleach a few times, brightens the colours nicely.

[recon]

Originally Posted by soldiers301

Sorry recon but believe it or not the material used for making Frontenac Stuff is the fabric that has been rejected by DND. Yeah I already seen a pair of Frontenac pants, and yeah they could last longer but this is not military specs material, so this is rejected by DND. The print quality is not the same as the issued one and could not offer IR protection.

I dont mean that Frontenac CADPAT is crap, it is just rejected by DND cause of its general quality.

Sorry it is not, plain and simple.

[rc_p120]

Is it just me or do the colours on your NEW Frotenacs look off?