M4 AEG w/ recoil/blowback suggestions, help!

[Zak2501]

Hey guys, I recently caught the airsoft bug.. again.
I've been always interested in airsoft since its humble beginnings in my area. I am happy to report that all my paintball fields in my area now have airsoft days! Boy has airsoft come along way in the past decade.

I am very interested in customization, realism, so all metal, authentic looking, reliability, sounds good, shoots far and accurate, recoil or some kind of blowblack.

My gun of choice would be a M4. Tactical and customizable as possible.

Some suggestion I have found from other posts:

KWA RM4A1 Electric Recoil Gun $375.00 CAD
I love this guns feature set: having the lock bolt function when you run out of BB's is so appealing to me because it adds so much realism. Also to be able to select 30 BB's or 60 BB shots per mag makes me happy too and the icing on the cake is you can use regular mags as well. A very hard contender imo, anyone have any experience or second hand opinions of this gun?

BOLT M4 Bolt Recoil Shock System $549.00 CAD
No bolt-lock functionality but apparently has satisfying 'recoil'

BOLT M4 KEYMOD COBRA $494.10 CAD
B4KEYCOBRA realistic bolt movement just like a GBBS. Just no bolt lock feature
https://youtu.be/Pj6q3rn9hUY?t=39s

G&P M4 GP-FRS001 Free Float Recoil System Gun $337.20 CAD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYhdPKNHUrg

Tokyo Marui M4 SOPMOD $729.00 CAD
Tokyo Marui TM-M4A1-SOCOM Recoil Shock $729.00 CAD
Like the KWA ERG M4 these guns also has the lock-bolt function and a selectable 30 rounds or 82. But holy crap these guns sound great in full auto!

GBLS DAS M4A1 $1000+ CAD
Shell Eject and feature a bolt lock functionality.

TOP M4A1 EBBR $750+ CAD
Shell Eject and feature a bolt lock functionality.

The BO-Dynamics/Lonex BAW-R $360-450 CAD
Kicks a lot like a GBBR but it does not feature a bolt lock/release.
https://youtu.be/yswP6J5ag2U?t=6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4XrbW58SI0

Lonex Recoil M4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJqFDDN5G4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdJhySdaqLI

Lancer Tactical MMC $296.95 CAD
Lancer Tactical MMC is just a rebrand of the BO-Dynamics/Lonex BAW-R. Looks like it has comparable recoil to a gbbr, more than a STOCK Tippman M4 from what users and youtubers have said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HpxmF-7lb0
http://www.torontoairsoft.com/Lancer...EL_p_4571.html

G&D DTW M4
PTW clone.

NEW

KWA VM4A1
AEG2.5 platform, out now $311.95 CAD (direct usd to cad conversion off the kwa usa site, so no duty fees/shipping fees included in this price)
KWA RM4A1
AEG3 platform, coming Spring 2017
PTS CA C40
AEG3 platform, coming Fall 2017


Bolt vs KWA vs Lonex vs Tokyo Marui Recoil Systems

Originally Posted by Kungpow

All three seem like they have decent recoil. (More than the Marui) The Lancer Tactical MMC and its Lonex design are new to the market, and may have flaws in the future. The Bolt M4 is a very affordable, and safe choice with recoil comparable to the KWA RM4. It seems that the Lancer Tactical MMC has a slow ROF (Sounds like 650 rpm) but kicks the most. Both the Bolt and the KWA have higher ROF. Note that the KWA RM4 has special magazines that feature a bolt catch, and bolt release function.

Originally Posted by Wrath144

I have had 2 BOLT M4s and a KWA ERG, and the KWA beats it in every category in my opinion. The only downside is some proprietary internal parts, but I've also had fitment and compatibility issues with the BOLT.

That is all I could find for now, if anyone has any other suggestions I am all ears. I should be only spending $350 but if I have to spend $450-$500 I will, I might look for one used.
Please I would love to hear opinions on these rifles. Thanks guys!

[Kungpow]

Here is a list of EBBR Systems:

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=173245

The Bolt M4 has a good amount of kick and is more is is capable of upgrading than the KWA ERG.

The KWA ERG, GBLS DAS M4A1, TOP M4A1 EBBR Shell Eject and the TM EBBRs feature a bolt lock functionality.

TM EBBRS and the GBLS DAS M4A1 are expensive.

The G&P Free Float Recoil System is nothing special.

The TM Recoil Shock and the KWA ERG require special magazine to utilize the bolt lock/bolt release feature.

The BO-Dynamics/Lonex BAW-R kicks a lot like a GBBR but it does not feature a bolt lock/release.

[ThunderCactus]

If you want blowback, go gbbr.
In an aeg, its just one more thing to break down.

[lurkingknight]

ebb doesn't really blow back in any way.. it just moves.. or shakes... or vibrates.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by lurkingknight

ebb doesn't really blow back in any way.. it just moves.. or shakes... or vibrates.

I like thing that vibrates

[BioRage]

On a serious note, I would go with the RM4A1, the new ones are rear wired, and the bolt function is cool.

Marui has it's magic, but it's very over priced... I only know one crazy person here on ASC that has 3-4 of them *cough brock0*

[ProDoyle]

I like the KWA ERG, but I will never buy another KWA gun as the company has terrible customer service. I will also tell anyone who will listen about my terrible experience with them.

Although the recoil is weak, it is still enough that you need to adjust for it. I really like the feature in the mags where it stops shooting as well. But once again... caveat emptor with KWA.

[Cheesepie]

Best bang for buck is the RM4 as it has all the features such as recoil, bolt stop and so on and is decent out the box, get the RM4A1 if you can. Most of the RM4 gearbox and barrel set is upgrade able though there are a number of proprietary parts that you need to work around.

Increasing the spring strength would also increase the felt recoil, as long as the springs you are changing are linear. Non linear springs would decrease the felt recoil by a significant amount.

Some people have problems with cracked receivers, ive only seen it with the old PTS RM4 models however. I have a PTS RM4 but the body feels fine to me with no cracks even though ive gamed it pretty hard and have taken it apart hundreds of times by now. Id imagine they might have fixed it with the new RM4A1 as the body has been changed.

[Zak2501]

Originally Posted by Kungpow

Here is a list of EBBR Systems:
The Bolt M4 has a good amount of kick and is more is is capable of upgrading than the KWA ERG.
The KWA ERG, GBLS DAS M4A1, TOP M4A1 EBBR Shell Eject and the TM EBBRs feature a bolt lock functionality.
TM EBBRS and the GBLS DAS M4A1 are expensive.
The G&P Free Float Recoil System is nothing special.
The TM Recoil Shock and the KWA ERG require special magazine to utilize the bolt lock/bolt release feature.
The BO-Dynamics/Lonex BAW-R kicks a lot like a GBBR but it does not feature a bolt lock/release.

This is great info thank you. I've added it to the list.

[Zak2501]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

If you want blowback, go gbbr.
In an aeg, its just one more thing to break down.

I don't have any experience with GBB.
How much maintenance will I be doing compared to AEG?
How many rounds can you fire off with one mag before you notice a drop in performance?

[Zak2501]

Originally Posted by BioRage

On a serious note, I would go with the RM4A1, the new ones are rear wired, and the bolt function is cool.

Marui has it's magic, but it's very over priced... I only know one crazy person here on ASC that has 3-4 of them *cough brock0*

Originally Posted by ProDoyle

I like the KWA ERG, but I will never buy another KWA gun as the company has terrible customer service. I will also tell anyone who will listen about my terrible experience with them.

Although the recoil is weak, it is still enough that you need to adjust for it. I really like the feature in the mags where it stops shooting as well. But once again... caveat emptor with KWA.

Originally Posted by Cheesepie

Best bang for buck is the RM4 as it has all the features such as recoil, bolt stop and so on and is decent out the box, get the RM4A1 if you can. Most of the RM4 gearbox and barrel set is upgrade able though there are a number of proprietary parts that you need to work around.

Increasing the spring strength would also increase the felt recoil, as long as the springs you are changing are linear. Non linear springs would decrease the felt recoil by a significant amount.

Some people have problems with cracked receivers, ive only seen it with the old PTS RM4 models however. I have a PTS RM4 but the body feels fine to me with no cracks even though ive gamed it pretty hard and have taken it apart hundreds of times by now. Id imagine they might have fixed it with the new RM4A1 as the body has been changed.

Ok looks like the KWS RM4 ERG is a top contender right now for me.
Price is great and great features.
I wonder how upgradable and customizable it is.
I am curious how much faster the recoil effect drains the battery.

I am trying out weigh the pros and cons of AEG vs GBB
How much more maintenance is GBB? If its neglected what would happen?
How is the performance and range of GBB compared to AEG?
How many rounds can you fire off before the pressure starts to drop and becomes noticeable?

Also have you guys heard any about PTW systems and PTW clones. Are there any PTW clones under $1000?

Appreciate these answers thanks!

[BioRage]

GBB will cost a bit, since mags are 40-70 each, the gun itself you'll need a reliable one like a GHK IMO for cold weather play, else WE runs fine in warmer climates.

Anyways tons of threads on gbb vs aeg. If it's your first gun, I would get an AEG first.

GBB vs AEG

https://www.reddit.com/r/airsoft/com..._aeg_or_a_gbb/

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=154569

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=166047

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=97307

[Zak2501]

Originally Posted by BioRage

GBB will cost a bit, since mags are 40-70 each, the gun itself you'll need a reliable one like a GHK IMO for cold weather play, else WE runs fine in warmer climates.
Anyways tons of threads on gbb vs aeg. If it's your first gun, I would get an AEG first.

More great info thanks. Ok seems to me these points are preventing me from getting a GBB:
-Price of gun and mags (but you get more realism in the design and more quality correct?)
-30-70 round mags (I dont mind this because it adds more realism but at least with ERG you have the option of 30rd mags or high capacity mags)
-Gas doesn't preform well in the cold (from what I gather they start sucking under 10c depending on the setup. Vancouver's climate drops under 10c for at least 3 months out of the year. But thats usually the time I switch to skiing. We also have a indoor airsoft facility close by so I can switch to CQB in the winter.)
-In terms of maintenance I don't mind learning and researching how to properly maintain a GBB, thats part of the fun for me.
-Skirmishing off against AEGs with high caps and people that spray and pray (which makes these guns only good for milsim games, CQB or games where ammo is locked)

Are there any GBB with bolt-lock or do they all have bolt-lock and bolt release? (anwsered: yes 99% of GBB are bolt lock and release)

[BioRage]

99% of GBB's have block lock and a release. You can assume all GBBS are "realistic" in that aspect.

Most people just get their "GBB" needs from their side arm (pistol), while they run a primary AEG.

Maintenance is alright, you'll find a ton of videos on youtube. GBB are a lot more fun imo, but when shots can be inconsistent or not as accurate as an AEG that can be frustrating for many..

[Zak2501]

Originally Posted by BioRage

99% of GBB's have block lock and a release. You can assume all GBBS are "realistic" in that aspect.

Most people just get their "GBB" needs from their side arm (pistol), while they run a primary AEG.

Maintenance is alright, you'll find a ton of videos on youtube. GBB are a lot more fun imo, but when shots can be inconsistent or not as accurate as an AEG that can be frustrating for many..

Another thing is I have a indoor facility close by so I can switch to CQB during the winter and use GBB all year round.
But... skirmishing off against AEGs with high caps in the bush and people that spray and pray would suck so really GBBs are only good for milsim games, during the winter indoor CQB or games where ammo is locked.
So that said at least with a ERG I have more options in terms of type of gameplay and competitiveness with other AEG's.

So looks like I am leaning towards the KWA RM4 ERG as my first rifle.
As much as I like the realism of GBBRs a ERG is just more versatile and adding that extra OPTIONAL of bolt-lock with 30/60rd mags or no bolt-lock with high cap mags. With a bit of a recoil kick that can be customizable to add more of a kick.