Picking CM16 Dmr

[bradmc]

So I want to do a DMR build over time and I have been looking into the G&G line up of budget M4s and I need some advice.

I am torn between the Raider, Raider L and the R8-L. I plan on upgrading all internals down to the shell so I am not really concerned with that aspect. I think all models have quick access hop ups.

The Raider has a one piece barrel, and a hokey sight that needs to be dremelled, aside from that is is very compact and could be used in different situations simple by downgrading the spring and swapping the inner barrel. Downside is that it would need a huge suppressor to cover the huge barrel when in DMR mode.

The Raider L has a finicky 2 piece barrel but other than that it is the same deal, but would still require a relatively large suppressor.

Both the Raider and the Raider L have a short shroud and any bipod would be sitting pretty far back which might throw off the balance.

The R8 would only require a short suppressor, has a longer shroud but clocks in at about 100 dollars more than the other 2. This gun is also naturally long and would require additional parts aside from the other upgrades I would be buying for a DMR to be able to use this as a carbine...comfortably.

I cannot actually go and hold these guns since my schedule doesn't allow it and I am pretty far from the nearest store so I have some basic questions and welcome suggestions.

Do after market barrels just screw into the receiver body or does each brand have some strange attachment like my suppressor on my MP5 Sd6? The Raider L would be tempting if I could just buy a cheap 1 piece outer barrel and screw it in.

Are you able to slide extended barrels through most suppressors or does this require modification? Is it unwise to have an additional 200mm of barrel freely floating down a suppressor?

thanks

[Wrath144]

DMR rant incoming.

In order to help you, I first need to know what your definition of DMR is. In airsoft, DMR can mean any combination of the following:
- high fps
- locked to semi
- externally resembling a real life DMR

What a DMR is NOT, is an AEG that can outshoot other tuned AEGs. My carbine is tuned to the point where the only thing I would change to make it into a "DMR" would be to swap the ACOG for a short dot scope, add a suppressor and maybe a bipod. Note that these are all external changes.

So since you plan on upgrading the internals, I can only assume that you want your gun to visually resemble a real life DMR. SO. Real life DMR's don't have short ass barrels and huge ass silencers. They also don't have tiny ass rails. Scratch the Raiders. The R8 is the only real option from your list, but I seriously recommend starting with a better external platform (ie METAL).
My recommendation would be to start with a gun that has the DMR-type externals you want. Something like a G&P SAM-R, G&P M4 Navy Seal, or a VFC MK12.

Also, super long barrels don't help your range or accuracy. 455mm is generally accepted as the most accurate length, but similarly high levels of accuracy can be attained with shorter barrels. Any longer is a waste of money and makes your gun unnecessarily long. I'm sure Frank is going to mention his MK18 somewhere in here.

[bradmc]

Originally Posted by Wrath144

DMR rant incoming.

In order to help you, I first need to know what your definition of DMR is. In airsoft, DMR can mean any combination of the following:
- high fps
- locked to semi
- externally resembling a real life DMR

What a DMR is NOT, is an AEG that can outshoot other tuned AEGs. My carbine is tuned to the point where the only thing I would change to make it into a "DMR" would be to swap the ACOG for a short dot scope, add a suppressor and maybe a bipod. Note that these are all external changes.

So since you plan on upgrading the internals, I can only assume that you want your gun to visually resemble a real life DMR. SO. Real life DMR's don't have short ass barrels and huge ass silencers. They also don't have tiny ass rails. Scratch the Raiders. The R8 is the only real option from your list, but I seriously recommend starting with a better external platform (ie METAL).
My recommendation would be to start with a gun that has the DMR-type externals you want. Something like a G&P SAM-R, G&P M4 Navy Seal, or a VFC MK12.

Also, super long barrels don't help your range or accuracy. 455mm is generally accepted as the most accurate length, but similarly high levels of accuracy can be attained with shorter barrels. Any longer is a waste of money and makes your gun unnecessarily long. I'm sure Frank is going to mention his MK18 somewhere in here.

Fair enough. Looking for a cheap light blank canvas that can be made to shoot longer and straighter and still somewhat resemble a DMR. Thought about metal, not really interested in having my pot metal gun shattering and spilling $250 in internals all over the ground. If companies offered a CNC rifle, for under 2k I would probably be interested. Polymer seems to be good enough, plus it is extremely light. I have no real interest in spending an extra 300 for a gun that I am going to overhaul anyways. UNLESS, I can make a metal AEG more stable from a performance point of view. I assume polymer will definitely flex more, maybe even vibrate more but if the metal internals are well stabilized inside the shell would that suffice?

Most of my concerns are regarding the build of the 3 guns I listed, and if anybody had any experiences upgrading them. From what I have seen, most people just extend their barrels through the silencer and use them as cradles, presumably insulated to stabilize the barrel. I was just curious if that required any modding or if more silencers cam with enough room to do so.. I am also concerned about how compatible after market barrels are with the average G&G M4 and that way, I don't need to go the silencer route. if these barrels can be had cheap, I wouldn't need to go the R8 route and would still be able to break my gun down easily into a smaller carbine if I wanted.


as for performace, in short, this: http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/43...r-dmr-aeg.html

I am not the guys that wants to unrealistically snipe people across the city. I just want to build a "role" gun and have fun with it.

Then again, there is also the g36 V3 gearbox.

[waylander]

Just waiting for the show to start....

[ThunderCactus]

High accuracy at 260ft can be achieved with a 5" barrel.
This is why the whole dmr thing is a laughable idea in airsoft.
Anway, theres always talk of running an inner in a suppressor, but the smarter thing to do is to run a shorter barrel in your outer barrel.
20" outer barrel dmr with a 12-14" inner barrel.
The shorter barrel will offer just as much accuracy and be less susceptible to fouling.

[GR]

Knowing ASC, hold on to your hats, lads...

[ThunderCactus]

On the topic of plastic guns, it's not just flex you need to worry about, but how they actually construct the gun, and WARPING.
As I said in another thread, guns that are metal in real steel are specifically meant to be made out of metal.
Guns that are plastic in real steel, are specifically meant to be plastic.
If you try to make a metal gun out of plastic, you're gonna have a bad time.

The internals are stabilized inside the gearbox, but that's only a small part of the mechanism. You also need the gearbox to be very rigid against the hop chamber. There is a LOT of loose tolerances and flex points and wobble and lash in a regular AEG that you need to worry about even when you do have a metal body.

Systema is about the highest quality stock gun you'll come across, but you're limited to an M4 or MP5. Despite what anyone else says, the sole advantage of a ptw over a fully upgraded AEG is the rigidity and design of the barrel group. Everything else can be replicated in an AEG.

In the aeg world it's up to luck to find externals that fit together perfectly, there's a lot of shimming and tweaking involved which is why I switched to ptws. It's just much easier to get that top end performance.

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by bradmc

Fair enough. Looking for a cheap light blank canvas that can be made to shoot longer and straighter and still somewhat resemble a DMR. Thought about metal, not really interested in having my pot metal gun shattering and spilling $250 in internals all over the ground. If companies offered a CNC rifle, for under 2k I would probably be interested. Polymer seems to be good enough, plus it is extremely light. I have no real interest in spending an extra 300 for a gun that I am going to overhaul anyways. UNLESS, I can make a metal AEG more stable from a performance point of view. I assume polymer will definitely flex more, maybe even vibrate more but if the metal internals are well stabilized inside the shell would that suffice?

Most of my concerns are regarding the build of the 3 guns I listed, and if anybody had any experiences upgrading them. From what I have seen, most people just extend their barrels through the silencer and use them as cradles, presumably insulated to stabilize the barrel. I was just curious if that required any modding or if more silencers cam with enough room to do so.. I am also concerned about how compatible after market barrels are with the average G&G M4 and that way, I don't need to go the silencer route. if these barrels can be had cheap, I wouldn't need to go the R8 route and would still be able to break my gun down easily into a smaller carbine if I wanted.


as for performace, in short, this: http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/43...r-dmr-aeg.html

I am not the guys that wants to unrealistically snipe people across the city. I just want to build a "role" gun and have fun with it.

Then again, there is also the g36 V3 gearbox.

The CM line of rifles use cheap plastic not quality polymer, with lots of flexing. No way you can build a DMR from a CM. The metal gearbox is what holds the guts together, not the body. AEG bearbox internals will break, but not explode shattering your gun.

I read that article in the link, and disagree with the use of bolts on the front of the barrel. It defeats the purpose of the accuracy of a floating barrel within the hand guard. A quality, rigid outer barrel will float with accuracy bolted on to a metal receiver.

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

The CM line of rifles use cheap plastic not quality polymer, with lots of flexing. No way you can build a DMR from a CM. The metal gearbox is what holds the guts together, not the body. AEG bearbox internals will break, but not explode shattering your gun.

I read that article in the link, and disagree with the use of bolts on the front of the barrel. It defeats the purpose of the accuracy of a floating barrel within the hand guard. A quality, rigid outer barrel will float with accuracy bolted on to a metal receiver.

You talk as if polymer is somehow better than plastic...

I'm not going to debate about what defines a dmr in Airsoft. What I will say is you can make pretty much any gun shoot very accurately by fixing the air seal and assembling a quality barrel group. Accuracy in Airsoft if pretty mich three things: fps consistency, barrel quality, hop up quality.

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by pestobanana

You talk as if polymer is somehow better than plastic...

I'm not going to debate about what defines a dmr in Airsoft. What I will say is you can make pretty much any gun shoot very accurately by fixing the air seal and assembling a quality barrel group. Accuracy in Airsoft if pretty mich three things: fps consistency, barrel quality, hop up quality.

Certain polymers. The ones used on a Glock and firearms and industrial products are superior to polymer in consumer stuff. Most plastic stuff are molded from ABS.

[Wrath144]

All plastics are polymers. Glocks are made of plastic. Strong plastic, but still plastic.

[Kokanee]

@bradmc: You are going to get a lot of advice here from people who have no clue what they are talking about. Shortly people will start name calling and the insults and "your mama" jokes will fly. Then this thread will be consigned to the trash bin; but until then, it'll be a sweet ride.

[ThunderCactus]

I don't think this took off as fast as people thought it would

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Certain polymers. The ones used on a Glock and firearms and industrial products are superior to polymer in consumer stuff. Most plastic stuff are molded from ABS.

Polymer just refers to how the molecules are arranged. All plastics are polymers. Being made of "polymer" doesn't mean its made of good plastic. Condoms are made of polymer. Being made of polymer could mean its made of wool or silk, they're both polymers. The "polymer" is just a word used by marketers to make you think its something fancy.

[ThunderCactus]

"Where can I get that CNC metal??"