To NVG... or Not to NVG...that is the question.

[Jbone 11 11]

I've been toying with the idea of picking up an NVG monocular for playing at night but to be honest, the cost for anything worth buying is prohibitive to say the least.

With this in mind, I'm wondering what percentage of players actually have and use an NVG when playing night games or in MilSim events? More to the point, if I opted not buy NVG's would I be in the Minority or the Majority? I'd also be interested in knowing what devices are most common.

I've only ever played night games in europe. For the smaller local games, not too many had NVG's but for the bigger 24 hr games, quite a few had 'em.... maybe one or two out of 10.
Personally I've always relied on the good ol' fashion mk1 eye ball, but after laser eye surgery.... my night vision ain't what it used to be so Im considering the hit.

J

[Desmodus]

If you don't play in many overnight games and Milsim's I wouldn't really bother. Sure, NVG's are fucking cool and nifty (I've tried/seen them used also) but you can do just fine without them. The trick is just effectively thinking of ways of countering the players who do use them.

[foxtrot-one7]

NVG's are only effective until the element of surprise is gone.

[Cobrajr122]

If you were to not get NODs, you would be in the majority, like you said, they are expensive, so not many people have got them.
Saying that does not mean you will be in the Moriarty at any given game though, I have been to a couple where Nods were the majority.

The most common unit would be the PVS-14, a Gen 3 unit coming in at an average of $3K

[Brian McIlmoyle]

less than 5% of players have them

about 10% of milsim players have them

if you behave at night like it is day, have a care for where and how you stand, keep low, use the ground, and cover

the advantage is virtually negated

Thermals... none of that helps you will be seen, day or night, but less than 1% of players have thermal capability,

[ThunderCactus]

as frustrating as it is to have gen1 sometimes, it sure does come in handy! Especially when you have something to aim your gun with at night lol

prices of gen1 bombed recently so it's actually really affordable to get high end yukon gen1

[Jbone 11 11]

^^I was thinking the same. Armasight has a good range of mono's for under $500, which is a little more in the realm of possibility. This one in particular looks alright:https://www.armasight.com/internatio...ht-spark-core/

As for the PSV 14's....shiiiiit..... I got a healthy motorcycle habit to feed before I drop 3k on a nite-sight LOL!

[kullwarrior]

Prices of night vision have gone down quite considerably even for Gen 3 -In the United States of course

I did some research into this as I was interested in it as well here's my findings: (keep in mind this is only looking on internet)
Gen 1:
Armasight SPARK CORE does seem promising offers a typical Gen 2 resolution without the cost. The draw back is the fish bow effect and the lack of Automatic Brightness control (you can burn the NOD if a flashlight hits you for long term)

For Gen 2+, (Typical Gen 2 resolution seem to go anywhere from 35lp/mn to 72lp/mn)
Night Optics D300 SHP appeared to be the winner with the 51-70lp/mn and a price of $2200+Tax CDN, (FOM I'm suspecting 1000-1250)

Armasight's NYX-14 HP seem to be another good contender (55-72lp/mn, $2000+Shipping+Tax USD) It has sacrificial window and demist option but it uses its own propiertary helmet mount from my understanding. (FOM 1000-1250)

I'm not exactly sure if these two were technically allow to be exported. The US no longer play the Gen 3 = no export rules. They use Figure of Merits (Resolution X Signal to noise ratio), if the number exceed 1400, export permit will not be granted. Certain threshold would require export permit. I've tried asking multiple Canadian armasight dealer to get the Hight definition Gen2 and they stated its not allow for export. -> I don't know what's exactly going on.


In terms of Gen 3 options...
In Canada to buy a new one you're looking either at DEP-Photonis (European brand) or Kato'd (Russian), the benefit of buying a Photonis or Kato'd from what I've been told is that you can bring it to the states for games (provided you have receipt and proof of documentation indiciating its not made in US)

DEP-Photonis are offered by Alpha Optics and General Starlight Co. (both Canadian NOD manufacture)
The Photonis XD-4 has a typical resolution of 64lp/mn, some people say its resolution is competitive to the OMNI III spec.
Photonis XR-5 (essentially Top of the line) list resolution of 72lp/mn, its autogated people claim it can be compared to OMNI IV or V

The downside of photonis: Cost and Light sensitivity. The XD-4 runs about $2400+TAX CDN while XR-5 is around $3500 at very minimum (typically $4-5000) The light sensitiivty of the photonis are not as good as Gen 3 that's its drawback.

Kato'd is a Russian brand, its offered by GSCI. The FOM listed minimum from 1200 min (57lp/mn SNR>21) to tubes that are 1800 (comparable to OMNI VII) I tried finding out more info, the manufacture would NOT disclose about it. From the internet research, they had issues in the past with electronic failure) Most of these tubes are also not autogated

[FOX_111]

Gen1 and Gen1+ are almost unusable at games in the woods. You need a lot of IR light to make them work, as there is no moon. If you want to walk around with one, you need a NOD designed for that. A little "IR spotting scope" will not let you walk around. (I tried and failed)

I'd purchase a small IR scope though. Even a Gen1 would do if used properly.

IMO, to be worth it, you'd need Gen2 and up and even then, you better play a lot of night game to make it worth it.

Anyway, lot of players spam high lumen light and light discipline is generally non existant.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by foxtrot-one7

NVG's are only effective until the element of surprise is gone.

I beg to differ.

PVS14 + IR Laser = death machine. You may be on a similar playing field out to 50-60 feet with a full moon and no cloud cover, but I will have the upper hand out to the maximum range of my rifle, especially on no moon high cloud cover in the forest.

Accuracy within 100 feet is pin point. I could shoot your nipples off if you stand upright.

EDIT: All this while hip firing. lol.

[Canadian Psycho]

NVG is certainly not necessary, and in fact, the vast majority out here anyway do no have NVGs. I have had plenty of fun fighting NVG users including gen 3 and beat them many a time, you just need to change tactics and how you use cover.

NVGs are great fun, yes, but certainly not necessary.

[ThunderCactus]

FOX, absolutely right, you really rely heavily on the moon and ambient light.
However it helps significantly in detecting even the faintest amount of light, and especially IR light from other NVG users.
My argument is that the massive $1600ish price gap between gen1 and gen2 just isn't worth it for how infrequently you actually use them

And although IR laser and nvg is awesome, some tubes turn off before bright lights blind you, but the bright light still turns the NVG off AND you've been spotted lol
People may yell at me for divulging this well kept secret, but since all NVG does is amplify light, the same techniques for hiding from the naked eye work for gen1 and gen2, less so for gen3. Like someone hiding behind a flashlight at night. All you can see is the light, you can't see anything around or behind it. Works the same way for NVG except you don't need a very powerful light to accomplish that. With really inexpensive gen1, you could probably hide behind a keychain light.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

FOX, absolutely right, you really rely heavily on the moon and ambient light.
However it helps significantly in detecting even the faintest amount of light, and especially IR light from other NVG users.
My argument is that the massive $1600ish price gap between gen1 and gen2 just isn't worth it for how infrequently you actually use them

And although IR laser and nvg is awesome, some tubes turn off before bright lights blind you, but the bright light still turns the NVG off AND you've been spotted lol
People may yell at me for divulging this well kept secret, but since all NVG does is amplify light, the same techniques for hiding from the naked eye work for NVG. Like someone hiding behind a flashlight at night. All you can see is the light, you can't see anything around or behind it. Works the same way for NVG except you don't need a very powerful light to accomplish that lol

14's will auto gate flashlights. I may not be able to see 1ft on either side of the light, but I can pour accurate fire at a flashlight without the NVG turning off.

[c3sk]

Gen 3 Pinnacle tubes and L3 Tubes will not turn off when faced with light/bright light. These tubes can be used in well lit rooms.
Generation 1 & 2 Tubes will be damaged by bright light, and will automatically shut off when used in a lit room. Shut off or not, they are being damaged over time.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by c3sk

Gen 3 Pinnacle tubes and L3 Tubes will not turn off when faced with light/bright light. These tubes can be used in well lit rooms.
Generation 1 & 2 Tubes will be damaged by bright light, and will automatically shut off when used in a lit room. Shut off or not, they are being damaged over time.

From my understanding It's not the gen but rather autogating or not. Photonis xd-4 autogating and xr-5 can be used in day with overcast

//sorry for odd autocorrect words by my phone//