One of the worst service experiences I have had yet!

[venture]

I know the title sounds like this should be in retailer resolution, but I don't mean that. I mean as a gun doc, this gun was one of the worst experiences I have ever had with an AEG.

The gun in question was sent to me by one of the local retailers that I do service work for. He said it was a warranty job and that the gun was just out to the customer for a couple of days.

Initial testing showed a barrel hopelessly obstructed! I took the gun down and removed the barrel and hopup. I then used an unjamming rod to carefully, and with great difficulty, push a string of about 2 dozen bbs from the barrel! Looking to the gear box I could see a smashed nozzle right away. I put a battery on it for an initial test and to my surprise the nozzle moved perfectly. So the nozzle was smashed but the tappet plate appeared to be working. There was however no contact with any piston as the motor cycled. Either the sector gear was stripped (unlikely) or the piston was stripped (likely).

So, I guess it was time to take the gearbox apart. Inside I found: nozzle - smash (as I said I could see externally); piston - shattered; sector gear - stripped from shaft; and a bonus the selector plate was broken, too.

That gearbox (chinese clone) was very poorly spec'd for tolerances and I had a terrible time getting it put together. I removed the skin from one of my knuckles, but that didn't seem to help either.

Eventually I got it back together (little blood, sweat and tears on it - LITERALLY) and it was working fine with a new sector gear, selector plate, air nozzle and piston. Now I had to look down that barrel to see why 25 bbs had been jammed up in it.

I could actually see the "dirt" hanging from the barrel. I couldn't figure it? The gun was only a couple of days old! I ran a silicone oil soaked patch through the barrel and it came out reasonably clean?!!? Still baffled, I did another patch. Again, pretty clean. I then noticed a couple of pieces of what looked to be tiny white, plastic "fibres" (strips?). I kept running patches through the barrel but I couldn't seem to dislodge the majority of the fibres. I then put the barrel in warm soapy water and ran a barrel mop through it numerous times. Still only managed to get a few of these fibres. I could still see hundreds of them hanging in the barrel. I then moved to a nylon brush, but still no luck. I was forced to put a bronze 6mm barrel brush through it (NEVER DO THIS TO AN AIRSOFT BARREL) once and was greeted with hundreds of these things stuck to the bristles. The barrel now cleared I ran several silicone oil soaked patches through to clean up. I believe I have destroyed the accuracy of the barrel but I did not know what else to do.

Now, for a warranty job, I have to tell the retailer that I worked over 4 hours on that gun and relaced the 4 parts that I mentioned. Plus I used dozens of patches, a barrel mop, a nylon brush (it is ok to use again) and a bronze brush (not ok, full of plastic fibres now).

Here is the bronze brush - sorry it is just a crappy cellphone image:




AND here is my knuckle - again crappy cellphone pic:

[Spawn28]

Any idea what the fibres are from?

And ya that doesnt look like a warrantee to me looks more like Customer induced damage to me. ie plugged the barrel with something and then tried to shoot it out.

Hope the knuckles heal

[DarkAngel]

My first reaction would be a burr inside the inner barrel that is causing BB's to "shave" bits off, this would support the jamming issue. However from the picture, the "strings" appear to be more fabric in nature than plastic (though its hard to tell from the picture to confirm). If my theory is correct, it sounds like the customer kept pulling the trigger again and again and again, dispite the jam. Shit like that should void warrenty. However if it is due to manufacturing error (the burr), well, i suppose you could argue it.

Moral of the Story
Kids, if you hear something that doesnt sound right, STOP SHOOTING. Pulling the trigger repeatedly in hopes that itll work itself out will not fix it.

[audi_bhoy]

The joys of being a guntech

[Jimski]

oh yes I've seen that once
probably related to some problem with the inner surface of the barrel

[venture]

ah, excellent guys. there must be a burr on the inner surface. the fibres are bb shavings.

is that possible or would the shavings turn to powder? he was using king arms bbs.

the pieces seem like shredded polyethylene, like shopping bag material. could that be bb shavings?

[THe_Silencer]

Sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations, I can't imagine the bill for just the labour alone! All that effort wasted on a shitty barrel when you could've replace the inner altogether! BTW, What brand AEG is it? Does your store sell them?

[Tex]

The last time I saw something like this was with my old TN tightbore years ago. What ever coating they used on the inside would peel off just like you're describing.

[venture]

Originally Posted by Tex

The last time I saw something like this was with my old TN tightbore years ago. What ever coating they used on the inside would peel off just like you're describing.

i was thinking about a coating. didnt think a stock brass barrel would have one.

@the silencer
it is an src rpk and i have one in my store brand new, as well. i might put it on sale.

[m102404]

For the life of me I could never figure out how any wholesaler/dealer could offer any kind of warranty on AEGs. Just didn't make sense. Once it's out of your hands it's at the complete subject and whim of the user and these things are far from dummy-proof tanks. But to each their own I suppose.

However...on a one like you described....I would have done the cursory inspection and then said, "it needs a new mechbox and inner barrel....it's not worth piecing back together bit by bit". Faster on labour, easier on the forehead pounding (or blood letting in your case)...cheaper on parts at the end of the day since the margins on AEGs are pretty thin when you factor in these kind of headaches.

IMHO...I would not have even bothered running a brush down the bore, aside from out of curiosities sake. If it couldn't be cleaned out with windex/silicone oil/hot soap & water and cloth patches over a plastic jag it's probably not worth the time/effort. Especially for a cheapo barrel. I have noticed that a lot of "clone" barrels will have horrible flashing/burrs at the hopup rubber cutout. Definitely sharp enough to score/scrape BBs as they pass by....easily deburred with a hard awl/punch.

As an aside...I bought a "BNIB" WE PDW the other night. One part (cosmetic) was loose and rattling around in the front end...other parts were loose as well. The inner barrel had factory grease caked all along it. As in 4 patches worth of grease before it was even approaching clean. All in all...no big deal to me since I broke it down to the smallest parts and carefully reassembled it anyways...but if a "normal guy" just took it out of the box and started firing mags through it it would have gone back to the retailer as defective out of the box.

I may be a bit out of touch with things...but I thought this years ago...aside from a TM, every AEG should be stripped down and gone over even if BNIB before a single battery and BB is put through it. And even then with a TM...all the screws and bits should be checked that they're not loose.

[venture]

that is old school advice, man! now days people want to pag less than ever and have an extended warranty, too.

china clone doa/severe problem rate at a certain large supplier i have contact with is 2%.

that is one of every fifty guns is doa or some problem that prevents it from functioning brand new. i think your old school advice might be pretty sound.

[THe_Silencer]

Originally Posted by m102404

I may be a bit out of touch with things...but I thought this years ago...aside from a TM, every AEG should be stripped down and gone over even if BNIB before a single battery and BB is put through it. And even then with a TM...all the screws and bits should be checked that they're not loose.

That's still true with Chinese brands. I bought a VFC and the first thing I did was took it down to install a MOSFET and replace the metal piston head with a POM one. Aside from those two upgrades, everything else in the VFC gearbox was perfect: the shimming, airseal, amount of grease used, etc. The upgrades I did weren't even "necessary", I'm just a bit OCD when it comes to certain things. So yea, if you buy inferior brands like Ares and G&G, then you may need to give the internals a once over. Not so with VFC (at least with my gun)!

[m102404]

I've chit-chatted with a couple of wholesalers and retailers about this or that over the years...

Head scratching over what could be done to improve the "it works reliably in the users hands" component was certainly part of that. Warranty/no-warranty...etc...

I wouldn't say for all makes...but I know with the wholesaler of some brands that each mechbox is splayed open and the shimming is checked over. Each and every bloody unit. And the rest of the gun gets eyeballed too...and chronied post hot-spring change. A lot of PITA for a BNIB gun.

Yes...DOA rates sound about right...and that's even with a "QC" or "special run" line of products from the manufacturer. They're either kept as parts guns for repairs, exchanged in the next shipment, or just junked.

I know for a fact that in some of the first runs of legit product that there were out and out manufacturer assembly issues. How would you like to deal with 10 out of 12 cracked hopup units for a batch of new items destined for retailers in the next couple of days? Obviously cracked because the dim-wit with the power screwdriver on the assembly line was jamming the right hand screw in at the wrong angle and over tightening. That's where the relationship with the manufacturer comes into play...two e-mails later and it's resolved...couple of days later a bag of extra hopups arrive in the mail. Whole run of items goes out the door working properly...sweet.

The VFC sportline boxes were kind of neat...the "self-shimming" spring loaded gear was a neat idea. I liked the VFC builds..very nice.

[HKGhost]

I worked on a SRC RPK last week, I have to say it was built like shit. There were so many little issues with the gun. The hop up bucking was complete side ways when you look down the barrel. Piston to sector gear was so off that the brand new gun's piston was already worn down. I have to say that the SRC RPK is one of the worst stock SRC gun I've seen.

[venture]

to be fair there are 3 dfferent rpk generations.