You guys have any recommendation for the first GBBR to get?

[LIL'WEI]

-I own a GBB m9 and an AEG. well, time for me to move on to GBBR now


-I was thinking about getting a WE SCAR, but I have read a lot of reviews and it seems We scar broke up really fast unless upgrade all the parts which means burning my money again and again.....

-then my second option is AGM m4 upgraded (G&P hopup, G&P Hop up chamber, rubber, and CQB-R length inner barrel, G&P anti-rotation pins, G&P Front Fix Pin), seems quite solid to me at 500 price......

well, since it is my first time to get gbbr, anyone got any suggestion? good qulity, hard to broke and easy to do the mantaince.......

thanks guys!!!!

[baker_Jeff]

Don't go the AGM route. Hard to find mags (right now at least?) parts may or may not be compatible, inconsistent performance. I had one, was not happy with it.

Try my KJW M4 next time you're at the shop (I thought you did?) and you'll be sold. They are reliable, quality magazines, replacement parts (if they are even necessary) are readily available.

The only downside is expensive magazines, but for the rest they are well worth it.

[Rugger_can]

The WE scar's issues with "reliability" are over exagerated and often come from Idiots whom are too butthurt because they broke their toy from Poor use. The rifle is shipped unoiled to reduce Dust attraction during storage and people will often start using it before actually tending to the gun.

Also the famous stock swivel or part 66 issue is basically a NON issue as they have reinforced this part in the latest run and they now sell Part 66 for as little as 10 US on a great many websites. Also RA-Tech makes an "Upgrade" package that replaces the most commonly damaged parts with CNC Machined parts and includes the NPAS Kit which is needed to bring the rifle into safe FPS range for most fields and is avaliable from RA-Tech Directly or other retailers for as little as 130 Shipped. This kit also includes an "upgraded" hopup and bucking, as well as a replacement Part 64 which open often claimed was a point of failure on the original parts.

The Majority of the parts people have had minor issues with are both easy to purchase as well as replace one's self. And the rifle is quiet a joy to shoot, the only downside are the Magazines however having started playing back in the day when paying 40 bucks for a TM lowcap was common I don't really mind.

Cheers

[LIL'WEI]

Ok thanks jeff! i will come next time to get a good look at it

[Kimbo]

I've had an AGM, Inokatsu, and a WE.

I've settled into a KJW. The most gameable and reliable so far.

[kullwarrior]

Daytonagun, once you go there you will never return to the world of internal mag GBBR (or propane mag)
Available in:
AK74 Variant
AK47 Variant
Type 56
M4
M16
M110
hk416

I've fired
G&P WOC, Prime GBB, KJW M4, WE SCAR, and of course my DG AKS74U

Of those the recoil can be best describe as followed:

1) First few shot
Daytonagun has the most power
then Magna system Prime GBB, WOC
KJW M4,
and lowest with SCAR

2) After 10 rounds
Daytona, no cool down
KJW
Magna
WE

In general:
GBB are PITA in terms of reliability and cost. I've spent probably around $3000 on the GBBR before giving up and realize its a dead route. The Magazine are too fragile to do any tac reload, as they're heavy and easily leak (if you chuck em around every mag will even Pro-Win)
Parts will wear out, WE seems to be the fastest and then WOC, Prime. KJW its ok, but at the same time not as realistic.

I'm not gonna mention AGM because its literally the shit of shit of shit. It's cheaper to build a more reliable one from parts and G&P receiver.

[coach]

Hands down WE PDW.

[Danke]

Well it's not really a rifle but the KWA/KSC MP7 has a pretty good following.

After that the KWA rifle is looking interesting, and then the VFC coming soon ones also.

If you have to go right now I'd get a used one from someone you know that's had all the fixes thrown at it already. You know the folks who can't help but upgrade their gear and then get bored and compulsively sell it for something new.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Danke

Well it's not really a rifle but the KWA/KSC MP7 has a pretty good following.

After that the KWA rifle is looking interesting, and then the VFC coming soon ones also.

If you have to go right now I'd get a used one from someone you know that's had all the fixes thrown at it already. You know the folks who can't help but upgrade their gear and then get bored and compulsively sell it for something new.

MP7's mags are rare an the accuracy is about 100-110 ft with 0.28g
WE PDW, don't know too much but from SCAR info, its weak recoil, even weaker parts.
VFC gun is crap, RA-Tech said it's not very good, but its not very bad either (Same thing they say on G&P WOC) so in another words, GET Inokatsu, or if you can't GET VIPER (those are OEM brand Inokatsu 08)

Nevertheless, you have to know that Inokatsu's quality is equalivant of firearm's world DPMS for the receiver finish. Airsoft ones just dont match. Including Prime.

[Rugger_can]

Kull I respect your opinion but your flip flop approach to the problem is your weak point in this argument. For the supposed three grand you have spent on various GBBR platforms I can replace every single fragile point on a WE SCAR almost 20 times. Most reliable reviews have indicated that the current iteration of the WE SCAR can push up to 10k rounds effectively without need of replacement parts when properly maintained in their stock form. This coupled with the extremely low cost of quality upgrade parts pretty much negates your points. The cool down effect is a problem with all GBBR's and I have noticed no determinable reduction in rof that would render the platform unusable.

As for "kick" try to remember that the SCAR platform by design and thus translated into the real rifle keeps the recoil absorption centered within the middle of the gun thus mitigating the kick. The platform in reality has significantly less recoil then an M16-M4-AR15 platform due to the fashion in which the recoil is absorbed.

As for the fragility of GBB magazines? Well take care of them. Don't do tac reloads and swing free's on mags, Index your spent magazine and deposit it into a dump bag before indexing your next magazine. Use quality secure methods of carry, and respect them. Shit there's a reason why Pmags are so damn popular these days within real steel shooting, they are durable where as real magazines are not.



In anycase I believe we will have to agree to disagree, I just felt that a rebuttal was needed for your position, please don't take this as an attack, I just don't agree.

Cheers

[Danke]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

MP7's mags are rare

I have seven mags, it was no trouble to find them. I could go over the other opinions you have but I'll leave them for now.

[kullwarrior]

Originally Posted by Rugger_can

Kull I respect your opinion but your flip flop approach to the problem is your weak point in this argument. For the supposed three grand you have spent on various GBBR platforms I can replace every single fragile point on a WE SCAR almost 20 times. Most reliable reviews have indicated that the current iteration of the WE SCAR can push up to 10k rounds effectively without need of replacement parts when properly maintained in their stock form. This coupled with the extremely low cost of quality upgrade parts pretty much negates your points. The cool down effect is a problem with all GBBR's and I have noticed no determinable reduction in rof that would render the platform unusable.

As for "kick" try to remember that the SCAR platform by design and thus translated into the real rifle keeps the recoil absorption centered within the middle of the gun thus mitigating the kick. The platform in reality has significantly less recoil then an M16-M4-AR15 platform due to the fashion in which the recoil is absorbed.

As for the fragility of GBB magazines? Well take care of them. Don't do tac reloads and swing free's on mags, Index your spent magazine and deposit it into a dump bag before indexing your next magazine. Use quality secure methods of carry, and respect them. Shit there's a reason why Pmags are so damn popular these days within real steel shooting, they are durable where as real magazines are not.



In anycase I believe we will have to agree to disagree, I just felt that a rebuttal was needed for your position, please don't take this as an attack, I just don't agree.

Cheers

10k is still a low round count for anything, I've also forgot how the gun can't be gamed due to high fps last game I know a guy chrono his at 550 on 0.28g

As for the recoil reduction, while this can be said to be true. you forgot about the weight of the bolt carrier. The heavier it is the more recoil it has. SCAR one is pretty light compared to bolt carrier from Magna system. (DG is alot heavier than that)

As for cool down, it depends on the efficiency of the mag, KJW has good efficiency while Magna does not thats why KJW can do 3 mag dump before refill. But for all sake purposes solution is regulated CO2 or HPA. Gas in Mag? HPA is the only chance as 12g co2 cools down pretty fast due to ineffiiciency. As for tac reload, I use external air, and I do tac reloads. So I guess that defeat the purposes.

Originally Posted by Danke

I have seven mags, it was no trouble to find them. I could go over the other opinions you have but I'll leave them for now.

Hmm wasn't paying too much attention then, last I heard was shortage of long mp7 mags everywhere.

[aZn_triXta07]

Before somebody begins bashing classic airsoft because of an external tank let me just say you can buy skinny tanks that fit in your magazine pouches, they cost as much as the regular sized ones but its damn neat.

As for air? Invest in an 80CFT tank, it costs anywhere from $5-$7 to fill that up and it will last you ALOT of fills for small tanks.

I currently have the ONLY Escort MP5 thats been fully done up with steel internals by DaytonaGun, it was a special request project ..I'm thinking of sending something else his way soon.

As for the OP for GAS-IN-MAG I've fired all except for AGM/VFC but I have to say I've been most pleased with WE AWWS M4 but if you really want to avoid having to replace anything and not have to worry about expensive magazines, breaking your magazines because you want to do tac reloads or lose them you can choose external gas.

Otherwise stick with AEG lol its the most economic way to go. Gas-In-Mag for me is more of a 'fun' toy and that's about it.

[Rugger_can]

Originally Posted by kullwarrior

10k is still a low round count for anything, I've also forgot how the gun can't be gamed due to high fps last game I know a guy chrono his at 550 on 0.28g

As for the recoil reduction, while this can be said to be true. you forgot about the weight of the bolt carrier. The heavier it is the more recoil it has. SCAR one is pretty light compared to bolt carrier from Magna system. (DG is alot heavier than that)

Yes, the rifle basically needs to have the RA-Tech npas kit installed, However the RA-Tech "upgrade" kit includes all of the parts that have the associated high failure rates and the price point of a new WE SCAR with this kit installed is still sub 800 making it an affordable option.

I liken GBBR's to the real steel market, your avarage off the shelf AR-15 is not going to perform as well as one might like and it certainly won't last forever, but with a few simple and relatively inexpensive additions of aftermarket parts it can perform very well and enjoy a long life with proper maintenance.

[pancakedestroyer]

The game (if I'm correct) that Kull is talking about was one I attended (silver creek). The Scar in question had a npas in it but due to the rather warm weather it was coming through the chrono at 650-700fps with .28s and that was with the npas dialed down. Propane doesn't like hot weather. That being said, the scars preform like champs and there isn't anything wrong with them. You can get an easy 60rounds from a WE M4/scar mag with no difficulty as long as you aren't running around trying to blast full auto, after that you'll probably need to top up your mag.