What guns need improvement or don't exist?

[evilmonkey]

Originally Posted by sukivan

the best way to get recoil would be force some propane through a con-di nozzle and ignite it

Sounds like fun, you build it and i'll test it :-D

[ancorp]

Originally Posted by attack-beacer

personally i'm with mapcinq that your idea is rather dangerous and not smart cause with burning propane theres carbon deposits and that means cleaning the gun after every game and increased wear and tear on the gun itself.

Cleaning the gun every "battle" seems realistic to me as well. Just make the system very persise for the M4s, and loose and reliable for the AK

I wish there was a way to store a small ammount of propane and an expansion chamber in say... the stock of a TM-AK-47, following the Tippman C3 propane powered paintball gun princible, except gasblowback fullauto. Infact, one could use the entire stock for gas storage, and the mechbox area for the bolt and expansion chamber.

I wish the classics would come back (gas blowback, external air) in a more convenient way (internal gas storage, etc)

Either way, the more realistic the better, including sound, recoil, and blowback.

Cheers!
Alex

[Ibby]

Plasma rifle. 40 watt range.

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by ancorp

Cleaning the gun every "battle" seems realistic to me as well. Just make the system very persise for the M4s, and loose and reliable for the AK

I wish there was a way to store a small ammount of propane and an expansion chamber in say... the stock of a TM-AK-47, following the Tippman C3 propane powered paintball gun princible, except gasblowback fullauto. Infact, one could use the entire stock for gas storage, and the mechbox area for the bolt and expansion chamber.

I wish the classics would come back (gas blowback, external air) in a more convenient way (internal gas storage, etc)

Either way, the more realistic the better, including sound, recoil, and blowback.

Cheers!
Alex

Propane performs poorly in full auto because of cooling effects. I'm not a very big fan of AEG's because of the whine and trigger delay. At the moment, I am aiming for an HPA-powered gun with the tank in the magazine. Might be unfeasible due to the cost of individual tanks + regulators. My calculations indicate that output pressure only needs to be about 150PSI for 450fps (with a 0.4m barrel, a 0.2g BB, no hopup, and an estimated 50% efficiency for imparting pressure onto the BB)

[Vladthecossack]

A nuke would be good.

[ancorp]

Originally Posted by sukivan

Propane performs poorly in full auto because of cooling effects. I'm not a very big fan of AEG's because of the whine and trigger delay. At the moment, I am aiming for an HPA-powered gun with the tank in the magazine.

Fair enough, no wonder the paintball gun is a pump action...
I doubt you would get much capacity of HPA in a magazine, although probably more than enough for 70-100 blowback shots. No hicaps though, and I think thats for the better, having 600 rounds in the palm of your hand is very unrealistic. Perhaps converting a gas blowback pistol as a first trial model, something with a long slide travel, such as a desert eagle. Would need to be modified to accept a different size/shape magazine, and relocate the trigger to the rear, so the magazine is infront of the triggerguard...
Or perhaps modify the very nice escort gas blowback system (the recoil is very nice, I have a bunch of videos of the M60, Mg42, SVD, FAL, M4, MP5, etc).

Either way, Id absolutely love have something that operates more realitically than the AEG.

Cheers,
Alex

[sukivan]

someone want to explain to me how the escort blowback system works?

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Lisa

How are you going to get guns that aren't airsoft to make models for?

That's the easy part of this whole endeavour. Getting the licensing to produce replica's (yes, there is one of those) which are likely destined for Canadian consumption, will be nearly impossible to get.

Getting a license to possess prohibited weapons in order to copy their form and details is also impossible to get currently, but laws have been changed in the past and will be changed again.

Getting the millions of dollars needed for a facility, labour force, moulding rights and moulds to make all the necessary parts, getting all the R&D out of the way for guns that don't exist yet that need to actually be built and tested prior to public consumption, paying all those employees you just trained to sit and wait for the R&D and parts deliveries to occur, and all the other little "details" associated with manufacturing on a HUGE scale.

Let's face it, you'd need to make thousands of a particular model in order to even begin to pay for production costs. Otherwise, that Tavor or FN that you really like will end up costing $3500 for a modest performer, maybe, or a piece of junk that will never empty a mag before needing major work (G&G). And who'd want that?

If sukivan has all this money, technical know-how, business experience, manufacturing management experience and market analysis, then I say best of luck to him. Otherwise, it's just another kid with illusions of grandeur.

[swatt13]

so why couldnt a guy make a rifle in the same respects of a gbb?
think ar or ak - load the mag with x amount of shots, gas it up just like a gbb, have the rifle on the same page of a gbb pistol with the bolt cycling and loading the next shot just like the slide on a pistol.

instead of gas storage on the gun, have it in the mag.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by swatt13

so why couldnt a guy make a rifle in the same respects of a gbb?
think ar or ak - load the mag with x amount of shots, gas it up just like a gbb, have the rifle on the same page of a gbb pistol with the bolt cycling and loading the next shot just like the slide on a pistol.

instead of gas storage on the gun, have it in the mag.

I would love to see that. It could be done, but the mechanics would be the key. Blastyman had a Sun Projects M4 GBB if you will, but it used an external tank to store the propellant. If you could get a reliable magazine to work, you're set. But that's the problem I suspect. In Canada, a mag might cost you $200+ for a lowcap maybe + the surely $2000 pricetag = not alot of sales.

Companies are likely to stict to the tried and true AEG.

[sukivan]

How about ROF? Would you like to see realistic ROF, or as high as possible?

Obviously, if I'm going to have an full-stroke bolt cycling, it's going to slow down the ROF of a given gun. Is this going to be an issue?

[ancorp]

Id love it to have realistic rate of fire for each gun, power too, but that would make it too complicated (for example, having an AK shooting 8mm at 70m/s and an M16 shooting 6mm at 100m/s ). Either way, I find that many upgraded AEGs have an unreasonably high rate of fire, combined with a hicap, makes up for very unrealistic firing, just becoming an ammo hose!

I think that a firerate between 500-900rpms would fit most automatics, if you could make per gun make, it would be great in realism. For example, AK going off at around 600rpm, and the M16 at around 800-900rpm. You can use the same system, but put a heavier bolt on the AK to both slowdown the firerate and have it have more recoil just like real steel.

My dream gun would be a full auto all steel and wood AKM with full stroke, heavy bolt gas blowback, 600rpm, 8mm 715fps (instead of 7.62mm at 715m/s on real steel), with standard 30 round magazines and enough gas in the magazines resevoir to be able to fire off all the shots the same FPS and firerate in as cold as 0 C temperature. A nice 75 round drum mag with a larger resevoir (sure has the room for it) to support all the rounds under the same condtions would be a nice accessory for later. Ah... a man can dream

Cheers!
Alex

[ancorp]

Originally Posted by sukivan

someone want to explain to me how the escort blowback system works?

That you might have to as over at Classic Airsoft .

Cheers!
Alex

[sukivan]

Originally Posted by ancorp

Id love it to have realistic rate of fire for each gun, power too, but that would make it too complicated (for example, having an AK shooting 8mm at 70m/s and an M16 shooting 6mm at 100m/s ). Either way, I find that many upgraded AEGs have an unreasonably high rate of fire, combined with a hicap, makes up for very unrealistic firing, just becoming an ammo hose!

I think that a firerate between 500-900rpms would fit most automatics, if you could make per gun make, it would be great in realism. For example, AK going off at around 600rpm, and the M16 at around 800-900rpm. You can use the same system, but put a heavier bolt on the AK to both slowdown the firerate and have it have more recoil just like real steel.

My dream gun would be a full auto all steel and wood AKM with full stroke, heavy bolt gas blowback, 600rpm, 8mm 715fps (instead of 7.62mm at 715m/s on real steel), with standard 30 round magazines and enough gas in the magazines resevoir to be able to fire off all the shots the same FPS and firerate in as cold as 0 C temperature. A nice 75 round drum mag with a larger resevoir (sure has the room for it) to support all the rounds under the same condtions would be a nice accessory for later. Ah... a man can dream

Cheers!
Alex

all of that seems feasible except the 715fps muzzle velocity. Typo, or are you just keen on breaking your opponents' fingers? :razz:

[ancorp]

Originally Posted by sukivan

all of that seems feasible except the 715fps muzzle velocity. Typo, or are you just keen on breaking your opponents' fingers? :razz:

Haha, nah the velocity is for my "Dream" gun, not to be fielded, just to have at home for the fun of it. Although I dont see why we can use something like that if you want true realism... with that velocity, people would really go out of their way of getting hit. If we limit all to realistic mag capacities and mag ammounts, there wont be much spray and pray, especially if one could obtain a nice large field, where marksmanship would come in handy like in real life. I bet that having over 700fps with a heavy 8mm bb would give you quite the range (gotta be atleast 100 meters/330feet!), and with decent recoil the gun might not stay on target at that range past 2-3 shots on full auto...

Well either way, its not gonna happen, so velocities should be under 400 fps on automatics, and around 450 on the semi automatic rifles. Sound like too small of a difference if you ask me, I think that rifles should stay where they are, and snipers be allowed around 600-650fps to actually have a difference worth noting. With the proper rules/limits of engagement for the snipers, it would not be anymore dangerous than having a 400fps AEG burst just bar enough not to be in the "mercy" range.

I can go on and on, but thats not what youre looking for here

So to sum it up, the closer to realism the better, while following the 400/450fps field limits, and having reasonable conveniece with the propellant (i.e. gas in the mags, and enough of it!). Shouldnt be an ammo hose, fire rate needs to be close to real steel, recoil should be nice and high, and price should be low

Cheers! :cheers:
Alex