Grenades and CQB

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by sammynac99

was a little brown monkey, and was in a good position to fire on me,

henceforth known as LBM-DD

[Silverthorn]

Originally Posted by sammynac99

Distraction device also known as mini monkey, I call grenade, throw him, and shoot the guys as they try to figure out what he is! Lol

As an organizer and player I personally frown upon this and specifically do not allow it in my game. You throw something and yell grenade? It better be a grenade.

It's just too to easy to pick up any piece of junk, yell grenade to force people out of the hiding places and then shoot them.

Buy a real grenade or make one

[talon]

I don't see why this would not be encouraged? Makes people identify what's being thrown in, adapt...

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Silverthorn

As an organizer and player I personally frown upon this and specifically do not allow it in my game. You throw something and yell grenade? It better be a grenade.

It's just too to easy to pick up any piece of junk, yell grenade to force people out of the hiding places and then shoot them.

Buy a real grenade or make one

If you respond to a false threat.. and move from your position.. you deserve to be shot.

it's exactly the same as not permitting feints in a boxing match.. the purpose of the feint is to draw someone out of their guard to respond to an action that is not a threat so that a real attack may now be launched to the exposed area. Perfectly legitimate and valid combative technique.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

If you respond to a false threat.. and move from your position.. you deserve to be shot.

it's exactly the same as not permitting feints in a boxing match.. the purpose of the feint is to draw someone out of their guard to respond to an action that is not a threat so that a real attack may now be launched to the exposed area. Perfectly legitimate and valid combative technique.

Hat on a stick. It is hilarious.

[Silverthorn]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

If you respond to a false threat.. and move from your position.. you deserve to be shot.

it's exactly the same as not permitting feints in a boxing match.. the purpose of the feint is to draw someone out of their guard to respond to an action that is not a threat so that a real attack may now be launched to the exposed area. Perfectly legitimate and valid combative technique.

I do not allow it because it's just too easy. A big part of the pleasure in airsoft is sneaking up on the enemy, trying to get in a good firing position, trying to flank, etc...

If all that fun can be destroyed because somebody throws an old shoe in your midst it kind of sucks.

Yes, we should identify what is being thrown at us but considering grenades (fake or real) often falls behind other players or roll all over the place (and is often impossible to see) and you usually have 2-3 seconds to react it's just too easy to throw a grenade and destroy the fun players had.

Happened to me twice. It really pissed me off (and others) twice. I stopped allowing it in my games and never had anyone say it was a bad idea.

Yes in real life I am sure you can do that and if you get away with it : congrats. But airsoft is supposed to be fun and this is just NOT fun.

[Gato]

Originally Posted by Silverthorn

I do not allow it because it's just too easy. A big part of the pleasure in airsoft is sneaking up on the enemy, trying to get in a good firing position, trying to flank, etc...

If all that fun can be destroyed because somebody throws an old shoe in your midst it kind of sucks.

Yes, we should identify what is being thrown at us but considering grenades (fake or real) often falls behind other players or roll all over the place (and is often impossible to see) and you usually have 2-3 seconds to react it's just too easy to throw a grenade and destroy the fun players had.

Happened to me twice. It really pissed me off (and others) twice. I stopped allowing it in my games and never had anyone say it was a bad idea.

Yes in real life I am sure you can do that and if you get away with it : congrats. But airsoft is supposed to be fun and this is just NOT fun.

If your fun is destroyed by ingenuity and thinking a little outside the box, please, if I ever sign up for your games, remind me that I don't want to go. If your players react to a false threat or don't have the discipline to remain where they are, like Brian said, they deserve to be shot, and your not allowing that probably won't extend their "survival" by much.

If getting killed "pisses you off" you might want to find a new sport, because I guarantee you, it will continue to happen. As well, people will continue to use items as distraction, even if they know it pisses you off, so long as the game rules allow it.

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

If you respond to a false threat.. and move from your position.. you deserve to be shot.

it's exactly the same as not permitting feints in a boxing match.. the purpose of the feint is to draw someone out of their guard to respond to an action that is not a threat so that a real attack may now be launched to the exposed area. Perfectly legitimate and valid combative technique.

I'm kind of split on this one. I think that Brian's point is correct; disruption tactics are an important part of the game. You don't want to stray away from sportsmanship either. On our field yelling grenade and throwing a dummy wouldn't be a big deal. We do have some rules that make people shake their heads though; wether due to experiences or keeping important game dynamics. I'd say dummy grenades should be fine as long as no one is throwing anything dangerous.

One caveat, it could depend on where and whom your playing with.

[FirestormX]

I can see both sides. Personally it would annoy me to have someone yell "grenade" and it end up not being a grenade. For the sake of keeping the game fun, I usually treat a grenade detonation as something that will clear the room I'm in, regardless of if I somehow don't get hit with a BB. So if someone says they threw a grenade in, I call myself out if I can't get to cover. It makes it more fun for the other side - they had a plan to clear a room with a grenade, someone used the grenade that they spent all that money on, and they expect the room to be clear. I'll resist within reason (eg dive for cover and stuff), but I try to play along with the idea of keeping the game fun for the other side as well.

Granted, most of this happens at UA, so calling myself out usually just means walking 15 seconds back to spawn, but it has that "feeling" of someone yelling out "I hit you!", and you just calling the hit to avoid a hassle.
If someone calls "grenade" and something goes flying into my room, I know that I'm going to call myself out regardless, and it's kind of a piss off to realize that my "trying to be nice" was taken advantage of.

I'm not saying it should be universally discouraged, I'm just pointing out that it can be abused against more trusting players like myself. =P

Edit: Also, I'm talking about small, friendly, skirmish games. More long-term games, with large teams, large fields, etc, I'm not as "casual" about giving myself up to someone randomly yelling "grenade" near me.

[coach]

It's no worse than someone throwing an actual frag grenade, yelling grenade, and it's a dud. Not to name names but there are people who's grenades either always go off prematurely or take about 15 minutes to detonate.

Anyway, if a grenade is tossed into a room, impact or timer, and it goes off as it should, you're probably dead anyway. Trying to get out or away knowing someone is outside or around the corner waiting for you seems kind of silly. Properly deployed grenades should involve planning the choke points and a firing line. Either you come out dead or will be very soon!

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by coach

It's no worse than someone throwing an actual frag grenade, yelling grenade, and it's a dud. Not to name names but there are people who's grenades either always go off prematurely or take about 15 minutes to detonate.

Anyway, if a grenade is tossed into a room, impact or timer, and it goes off as it should, you're probably dead anyway. Trying to get out or away knowing someone is outside or around the corner waiting for you seems kind of silly. Properly deployed grenades should involve planning the choke points and a firing line. Either you come out dead or will be very soon!

Good point. I guess what I was getting at, is the serious level of the game. A few kids paying to play at a weekend shoot 'em up, it may not be beneficial. But for any even semi serious player, you usually get commended for pulling of something like that ...if it works.

And never call yourself out prematurely, unless your absolutely SOL. Its not over till Rob's mom sings after all. It's no different than figuring out an enemies night challenge, and using it to kill them. Essentially your identifying yourself as their team. That to me is worse than yelling "grenade!" and throwing a stuffed monkey. Try yelling "stuffed monkey!", and throw a real grenade. Anything to let the enemies guard down.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

the LBM is the way to go.. if it scares you out of your spot and you get hit.. you can cuddle with it a little to assuage the rage.

[coach]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

And never call yourself out prematurely, unless your absolutely SOL. Its not over till Rob's mom sings after all.

Absolutely. Never ever call yourself out unless the grenade actually goes off! Other than duds, I've seen grenades roll past me and go off outside of the intended space we were in. Literally rolled in one door and put the other! Did it go off? Yes. Did any of the BB's remotely come close to touching anyone? Nope because it was in a different room. Granted, a real grenade would have wiped us out still...but this is airsoft!

I get annoyed when people in a 12x12 room with only 1 door and no objects for cover don't call their hit. Just because a BB didn't hit you or it was a ricochet, you're still dead dumb ass!

[Dirtbag]

Just one question why call grenade in the 1st place, we only allow actual tornado grenades to be used as grenades. We had considered Bright Red Tennis balls as an alternate but figured tornadoes made more sense.

If you are using an item like a tennis ball then, I am on the side of the make sure it is a grenade before you call your self out. We have had people toss expended grenades in a building to flush people out, as well as chunks of wood.

You have to be aware of what is happening around you.

[Maxxa]

What if someone decides to Act of Valor a grenade? Would the rest of the squad be saved?