REALISM = Fun?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Wilson

Words of wisdom.

I'm into "Realsim" more so than I am "Milsim." :P

For me, I like to not be hindered by my gear .. so I buy good gear that works.. this tends to be solid name brand "real gear" like HSGI and EAGLE

I also like to be comfortable in all weather.. so I have a lot of clothing options for all weather operation..

I also like to have camo to suit the environment and season.. so I have several options

I don't go for a particular "impression" I don't carry stuff I don't think I'll use but I have enough experience to know what I may need so I typically have a good amount of stuff.

For example , yesterday I took Sha Do"s excellent Sniper Qualification course.

I had the following with me ( I knew the truck would be parked close to the Operation area so I took extra gear ) I would typically make the cammo selection prior to OP and leave the extra at home

Bergen with side pockets.
DZ OD Smock
Multicam Smock
Flectarn Smock
Woodland goretex coat
Flectarn goretex shell
Thin Fleece
thick fleece
Down jacket( SQUISHABLE !!)
Thin gloves
Medium insulated gloves
High loft Mittens with integral anti contact liners
Ghilli shawl
Wool watch cap
Boonie
Beret
2 scarves.. and a veil
Polucarbonate safety glasses
ESS striker thermal goggles with face mask
Mesh goggle
3 L camelback
1 l nalgene
1 l aluminum bottle
500 ml aluminum canteen ( with cranberry jiuce)
1 l thermos ( hot sweet tea )
500 ml Thermos ( bitter tea )

1st line composed of
Padded belt - ww2 vintage suspenders
2 Brengun pouches on back 1 with Flashlight. chemlight, Ist aid kit, emerg blanket and various snacks ( protien bar and crunch granola bars )
the other . 2 FAL mags ( one in a sock so they did not rattle ) I knew we would be sniping so I did not need loads of ammo )
Compass pouch ( with compass)
Small Utility pouch ( with Monocular )
Holster with secondary weapon ( rubber dummy pistol in this case because gas no worky at 2 degrees ) and Rubber knife , and leather man utility tool

Everything above was in the bergen for transport

I wore ..for the bound.. CF issue ( old) windpants ( the ones with the rubber in the knees and butt ) Cf issue polypropoline "sleeping" shirt Brit Wolly Pully. Thick fleece and flectarn smock, CF issue gortex boots ( with awesome redhead mureno wool socks $12.99 at bass pro ) and a pair of sealskins gloves
1st line with Ghilli , boonie , Scarf and veil + weapon

I also had a 2 burner coleman stove for a lunch time brew up .. but that was in the truck.

Nothing I had was there because it looked cool ( except for the beret.. but I probably look the opposite of cool when wearing it .. but I don't care.. it just feels right) But all of it kept me warm dry and active in the field for the duration.

It does not make me hard core.. but it sure made me able to focus on task and forget everything else .. as I had what I need and wanted for nothing.

Gear does not make the Man.. but it can make the man more effective.

[McKee]

Realism for most people is just having realistic kit and not playing on a paintball field. People generally draw the line when they're tired, hot as hell, and being eaten alive by mosquitoes and insects.

[Rumpel Felt]

Originally Posted by Wilson

There are no rules in a real gunfight beyond physics and anatomy.

Exactly, well put. That's how I see it.

We are emulating the act of shooting each other with high-speed projectiles from devices that are supposed to look exactly like the real devices that fire the really high speed projectiles. The realism is all about the gun, nothing more.

If it's not about the gun, go play paintball. That's not saying I'm against any waccko mods either. As long as the basis is something that resembles a real gun, then the purpose of airsoft is fullfilled in my books.

I don't really like "MILSIM" all that much because for one, I can't make myself spend more on gear than on guns. Guns always take the cake for me. Which is why in 5 years of playing, I've never once been spotted in a proper BDU but I've sported many, many guns.

But back to the physics of it, the guns should be a realistic as possible. I hate how lame AEG's are, but currently it's your best/only choice for larger weapons. I hate hi-caps with a passion. There's nothing more that suggests you might as well go play painball if you want to run around and rattle like a sack of door knobs. I know I should be saying 'real caps or go home' but this is where we can have one compromise with airsoft. Any spring fed mag holds enough rounds to balance out the fact that one bullet is far more effective that one 6mm BB. So a lo-cap holding 90 rounds for an M4 is reasonable. The 'I'm poor' excuse doesn't really fly for using a hi-cap I say. You can pick up at least 4 lo/mid/real caps for most guns for under $100 at most and if you just spend $500 on a new gun, that's not unreasonable.

As for skirmishes, I like to have some order. The most annoying thing is not having definite teams or team indicators. I hate shooting people on my team and I hate getting shot by my own team. I can't play nearly as aggressively when I always have to stop and confirm who I'm shooting at.

Other than that, yeah, I usually just wear something like all black and bring out a chunk of my armory and try to make some memorable moments. Nothing like feeling all hardcore and macho like sporting only a chrome Desert Eagle and a tight sexy black T-shirt. Tell me that's 'not possible' in real life....

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Sentry

Realism for most people is just having realistic kit and not playing on a paintball field. People generally draw the line when they're tired, hot as hell, and being eaten alive by mosquitoes and insects.

People get tired, hot as hell, and are eaten alive by bugs when they have not prepared for the conditions.

This is kinda my point.. Realism means having the stuff necessary to do the job .. the job is not hauling around and gun and Shooting the other guy.. the job is keeping yourself warm/ Cool, Dry, Fed, watered and protected from insects so you CAN haul around a gun and shoot the other guy.

In battle.. its kinda not an option to go rest in the spawn or call it a day before the job is done.

Being able to carry through and Finish regardless of what is thrown at you.. that is realism ... because if it was real.. that is what you would have to do.

When we play.. we don't have to do anything .. its all by choice ...

I've seen lots of "gear whores" fall out after 2 hours of play .. over hot, over tired, and dried out... while the "hoodie warriors" played all day .. and finished .. who was more real?

[Double Tapper]

Did the sniper coarse involve a map and compass coarse Brian?. J/K
Winter time can be a pain to plan ahead in terms of gears to bring.
And when the weather is around 0c,getting wet and having fun can
be hard to achieve.I myself like to have it realistic as possible but still
have fun with the group,skirms are ok,but I lean more to the milsim.

[megaman]

i love milsims,but we rarely have an actual milsim in the edmonton area so i spend most of my time in skirms! i cant justify having a couple grand worth of guns and gear and only using it twice a year! gonna have to make some road trips to get my milsim fix in this coming season.

[Janus]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't even quantify how I play.

I'll creep, sneak and leopard crawl hundreds of meters. I'll advance with a squad using cover tactics and field formations. I'll talk on a radio and use C/S and send SitRep and contact reports.

And in the same game, I will drop off all my gear, go running in circles with just a pistol, hold off your entire team and make damn sure you know where I am...because all you'll have to do is look for the guy screaming, "MATT DAMON!!!"

Milsim? Skirmish? Who cares? I'm going to have some hilarious fun, and I'm going to try to shoot you before you shoot me.

Do we have to analyze this?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Double Tapper

Did the sniper coarse involve a map and compass coarse Brian?. J/K
Winter time can be a pain to plan ahead in terms of gears to bring.
And when the weather is around 0c,getting wet and having fun can
be hard to achieve.I myself like to have it realistic as possible but still
have fun with the group,skirms are ok,but I lean more to the milsim.

No it did not.. its hard to incorporate that within the scale of most fields

I'm going to start a new thread on an Idea I've been kicking around though that could include such skills.

[Hectic]

i also an in between kind of guy I hate Hi caps but they come in handy some days Mil sims are cool but so is hangin out with some friends and playing a few scirmishes throughtout the day

[Double Tapper]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

No it did not.. its hard to incorporate that within the scale of most fields

I'm going to start a new thread on an Idea I've been kicking around though that could include such skills.

Sign me up big guy.I love doing things like that out in the bush.

[Deftonius]

I prefer MilSim flat out, but if the time calls for a good skirmish I'm game for a little run n' gun.

[rexdlu]

Originally Posted by DONSTER 125

+1

Originally Posted by Naglfar

Yeah, I'm between milsim and 'fill up a hicap'.
I hate hicaps
I hate super serious players

+10

[T_A_N_K]

Ive played a variety of all games and I enjoyed each of them differently for different reasons. Real caps are cool, but for game dynamics, it doesn't really work well unless everyone is using them. Im not a fan of hi caps, just because I don't like the noise they make and the winding, but I can understand using them for budgetary and other reasons. For example I have a CA SA58, they only makes hi caps, so I have no choice.

As for games I have played mindless skirmishes at FR, zombie games, Black Bear hosted games at Wasaga, ATQ3 at TTAC3 and the most extreme for me Operation Black Tusk hosted by In Country.

Each of these games are extremely different and each had their appeal to ME. I enjoy all sorts of games in different environments under different restrictions. Some things just don't jive for different people. Im not into milsim or realism, I'm in to enjoyment. Im for whatever that I enjoy and that can either be a skirmish at FR, doing a training session at TTAC3, or carrying everything on my back into the field, patrolling and lobbing grenades at those dirty VC Lepers at an In Country game. Its all about what I'm feeling.

For some people, its not even about the game, its about the gear, and showing up to a game just to try out their rigs and shoot a bit, and talk gear with other gear heads and to me that's fine. Everyone likes their airsoft a bit different and there's nothing wrong with that.

But I mean, you have to take things into consideration, if you showing up to a zombie game, don't be expecting everyone to be all serious, your at a fucking zombie game. Same things goes with the uber SWAT/Seals/SAS/CF guys who want to be 100% realism, if thats what you enjoy than thats great, but don't be griefing someone else because their shit is out of order, not everyone is a soldier, nor does everyone want to be.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by rexdlu

+10

excellent contribution to the thread how bout -11

what exactly is ment by "super serious" players..

Everyone calls hit when hit .. everyone shoots 6mm plastic bbs

is it not an oxymoron to cal someone a "serious PLAYER" we are all playing afterall.. so it really can't be take too seriously ...

I'm serious when I'm training ... and for me play is training.. so I approach it in a manner that indicates the importance TO ME I don't hate people who bring less focus to the game... there is room for all types.

If I want an all absorbing simulation.. I won't go to a PB field to look for it..
Wheras if I want a run and gun skirmish I will.

It takes a certain financial comittment to gather up all the gear to be able to go into the field for 8 hours at a time.. and even more to do it for a couple of days. Not everyone cares to or even enjoys that experience ... it does not make you less or more than anyone because you can or do have what is required to do that sort of thing.

it takes NO money to bring focus and intensity to your every endeavor .. If something is worth doing .. its worth doing well.

I do have to admit that I find it frustrating dealing with people who are lazy .. ( or appear that way ) or could care less of they are impacting the enjoyment of an experience for others.

If you are "just there to have fun" and you are surrounded by guys all decked out in gear and clearly quite content to lie on watch for a few hours without firing a shot ... you may be at the wrong game.

Recently I ran a game that was supposed to be a recon based OP ... 1.5 hours in to the game .. a few people started to complain about "not having anyone to shoot at" I nearly LOST it .. the point of the OP was to find the guys to shoot at .... I mean there were some guys literally sitting around waiting for something to happen .. instead of getting out there and making it happen.
Finally I had to start to direct units to each other so they could get some contact ...

What is the point? This is an example of many typical players.. they want their game served to them.. Like hunters shooting staked out game.

Sure it may be fun.. a little at first ... but soon it just becomes the same old game over and over again..

[Azuki]

Paintball ;o... yea that used to be me .

TBH I'm a bit of a peace-lovin' hippie. I rather just talk it over . However I'm not so much of a hippie as to not be able to sit down and watch Band of Brothers (One of the greatest War if not TV series ever). Learning about what the people who fought in the wars faced is part of learning about our identity and history. I think milsimmers that take their sport seriously are, to what extent they can, paying respect to those that fight. I respect milsimmers cause they treat airsoft seriously, and are trying to experience something that is out of their normal day to day (even if only for a few hours). People who just play to shoot people or mess around don't really contribute much to the world of airsoft IMO, nor are they getting much out of it I think. However as long as they arn't disruptive there is no reason to exclude them.

When it comes to airsoft I just try to treat it as an entity into itself; treat it kind of like a martial art where I learn to control myself and develop a bit of discipline. CAPS works really well for that. I don't know if I ever will handle real steel, but should I choose to do so in the future, at least I'll know the fundamentals/how to be safe.