Buy and Sell negative ratings.

jtf2-phalanx · July 29th, 2006, 23:38

So, what is the definition of a flaker? Someone who breaks a deal to buy something after he makes partial payment or a "tire-kicker"? The first example, I wouldn't call a flaker, I'd call him an idiot. The second, I'd call a flake. Especially, if the person asks you to package it all up and get it ready for shipping. When I ask someone to do this for me, I feel obligated to follow through. So that leads to the question... do flakers deserve negative feedback? I'm usually patient with people and if they back out, I understand so I'd say no.

Lisa · July 30th, 2006, 00:39

didn't say you couldn't, you ask opinions you got them

thephenom · July 30th, 2006, 00:50

This isn't the first time I've seen these type of question in the short period I have been here. And the conclusion everytime, ummm, there isn't one.

Personally, a feedback is to rate your experience for the trade, if the trade never occured, how can you leave a feedback. Just becaues someone inquired about your item, even seriously inquiring doesn't mean he/she's obligated to buy. Unless he said "I'll take it" or at least clear acceptance of the offer, he's not obligated to buy. This is my general rule.

In your case, Optik, I'm not sure of all the PM details, but it does sound like you accepted his special request for shipping and he/she was about to pay you before flaking out. In my opinion, it's just poor trading practice, as for feedback, it could go both ways, but make sure if you do leave neutral or negative feedback, do detail out what happened. (ie buyer was commiited to buy, then refused to pay and back out of deal)

If you don't want this to happen again, never hold an item for anyone unless they decide to put down a deposit for you to hold the item till a certain date. First with the money always get the item.

Optik · July 30th, 2006, 12:04

But my point is that I lost another potential buyer due to that I under the impression that he wanted the item for sure after he said to pack it up and after I sent him my EMT address. Now weather or not I missunderstood "... I'd need it packed up tight.." is besides the point. He should have wasted 3-4 days of my time with questions and all that if he was not planning on purchasing it in the first place. Sure I can see maybe asking 1 or 2 emails of questions but not 5 and then telling me that my deal was a good deal (and it's the package deal that I put together for him) then to come up and say "I found a better deal"? BULLSHIT! Anyways I may have another potential buyer so lets hope this dude doesn't pull the same shit!

Janus · July 30th, 2006, 12:33

Likely a neutral rating if he (reasonably) put you under the impression that he was intending on purchasing. If his flaking (reasonably) prevented you from making a sale to other people, then that would be the option to choose. WWJD? He'd leave neutral feedback.

Of course, this is assuming that you're not one of those people who, when asked a simple question on the item, goes, "OMG UR BUYING U BUY U BUY!!!"

God, I hope not.

JohnnyDo · July 30th, 2006, 14:25

This is why good communication is key when making a deal. Although there are times shit does happen and you need to back out of a deal, the person who is trying to buy your items should communicate this. We all know and understand this can happen, but to lead you around on a leash for so long then drop out last minute is just not good form.

On that note, communication is required to establish intent. If I'm just asking questions and only half ass thinking about buying an item I will let he buyer know that I'm "interested only" or to leave the item avliable to anyone else who has the money. On the other hand if I know with 100% certainty that I want that item I'll let the seller know what my intentions are, down payment, payment plan, when I get paid, etc. Work out all the details of what and how the deal will happen. If I'm just asking questions about an item I will state this. But no matter what I always do my best to make an active effort to make sure the person on the other side of the deal knows what I am doing, why I'm asking questions, or if I'm really serious and need to make some sort of special arangements such as waiting to send money until payday.

It is always a good idea for you to establish, espeially with a big ticket item, that if the person your trying to sell to has a low trader rating and no other forms of feedback, that you will be more specific with your communication to him outlining what you want out of the deal. The feedback rating could also be used as yoru own person guide as to how far you will trust that person with such things as payment plans, waiting until thier payday, shipping first before receiving payment etc. I know on some forums that people will refuse to deal with a person unless they have a feedback of at least 10 or more. Other times I have delt with people with zero feedback and the transaction was perfect and no worries.

Now after my ranting here, in your case it's a matter of how you feel, but if you think that the person made you feel you had come to the conclusion of a deal then yes, I might have left neutral feedback. I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, but if you feel that way then you should not feel bad for leaving it. A person will only learn how to be a good trader on a forum by learning and that means they have to be taught.

If you feel you have good communication on your part, left the other person knowing how you would like to proceed (ask questions, get payment info), that you want to know a ya/nay answer on if he wishes to proceed with the transaction etc then yes nuetral feedback is needed. However, if you were just answering questions, with no clear and consice statement that you consider him to now be the future owener of said item, then I think it falls on your part to not leave feedback and to learn from the experiance to establish better communication in future deals. Don't forget, if you don't ask if he is 100% on the deal, then you never really know. If he doesn't say he's 100% into the deal then you don't know. This is what ultimatly has to be said by one of the people involved.

Optik · July 30th, 2006, 15:08

Well that a very good statement you made there. I think I'll just let this one slide because judging by what you said, I think we're both in the wrong. But one thing I can assure you I'm not one that presumes that one is 100% dead set on purchasing with just one or two questions lol. I might have to do some drastic price dropping appon next bump. I really need to sell this stuff to make room for new studio gear!

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July 29th, 2006, 23:38	#16
jtf2-phalanx Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC	So, what is the definition of a flaker? Someone who breaks a deal to buy something after he makes partial payment or a "tire-kicker"? The first example, I wouldn't call a flaker, I'd call him an idiot. The second, I'd call a flake. Especially, if the person asks you to package it all up and get it ready for shipping. When I ask someone to do this for me, I feel obligated to follow through. So that leads to the question... do flakers deserve negative feedback? I'm usually patient with people and if they back out, I understand so I'd say no. __________________ "Any punk can shoot from across the room but it takes a real man to get close enough to stab" "Why cause a huge disturbance when you just wanna kill ONE guy?" - Chris Rock

July 30th, 2006, 00:39	#17
Lisa Looking for form T-whatev Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Trenton	didn't say you couldn't, you ask opinions you got them __________________ May you live in interesting times. ASCMART, your smart choice

July 30th, 2006, 12:33	#20
Janus Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Red Deer, AB	Likely a neutral rating if he (reasonably) put you under the impression that he was intending on purchasing. If his flaking (reasonably) prevented you from making a sale to other people, then that would be the option to choose. WWJD? He'd leave neutral feedback. Of course, this is assuming that you're not one of those people who, when asked a simple question on the item, goes, "OMG UR BUYING U BUY U BUY!!!" God, I hope not. __________________ Age Verifier - Lower Vancouver Island Brotherhood of Nod - Nod Prime \|\| Vancouver Island Airsoft League - President Unavailable for AV until April 2020.

July 30th, 2006, 00:50	#18
thephenom Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto	This isn't the first time I've seen these type of question in the short period I have been here. And the conclusion everytime, ummm, there isn't one. Personally, a feedback is to rate your experience for the trade, if the trade never occured, how can you leave a feedback. Just becaues someone inquired about your item, even seriously inquiring doesn't mean he/she's obligated to buy. Unless he said "I'll take it" or at least clear acceptance of the offer, he's not obligated to buy. This is my general rule. In your case, Optik, I'm not sure of all the PM details, but it does sound like you accepted his special request for shipping and he/she was about to pay you before flaking out. In my opinion, it's just poor trading practice, as for feedback, it could go both ways, but make sure if you do leave neutral or negative feedback, do detail out what happened. (ie buyer was commiited to buy, then refused to pay and back out of deal) If you don't want this to happen again, never hold an item for anyone unless they decide to put down a deposit for you to hold the item till a certain date. First with the money always get the item.

July 30th, 2006, 12:04	#19
Optik Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oshawa, ON	But my point is that I lost another potential buyer due to that I under the impression that he wanted the item for sure after he said to pack it up and after I sent him my EMT address. Now weather or not I missunderstood "... I'd need it packed up tight.." is besides the point. He should have wasted 3-4 days of my time with questions and all that if he was not planning on purchasing it in the first place. Sure I can see maybe asking 1 or 2 emails of questions but not 5 and then telling me that my deal was a good deal (and it's the package deal that I put together for him) then to come up and say "I found a better deal"? BULLSHIT! Anyways I may have another potential buyer so lets hope this dude doesn't pull the same shit!

July 30th, 2006, 14:25	#21
JohnnyDo Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Calgary, AB	This is why good communication is key when making a deal. Although there are times shit does happen and you need to back out of a deal, the person who is trying to buy your items should communicate this. We all know and understand this can happen, but to lead you around on a leash for so long then drop out last minute is just not good form. On that note, communication is required to establish intent. If I'm just asking questions and only half ass thinking about buying an item I will let he buyer know that I'm "interested only" or to leave the item avliable to anyone else who has the money. On the other hand if I know with 100% certainty that I want that item I'll let the seller know what my intentions are, down payment, payment plan, when I get paid, etc. Work out all the details of what and how the deal will happen. If I'm just asking questions about an item I will state this. But no matter what I always do my best to make an active effort to make sure the person on the other side of the deal knows what I am doing, why I'm asking questions, or if I'm really serious and need to make some sort of special arangements such as waiting to send money until payday. It is always a good idea for you to establish, espeially with a big ticket item, that if the person your trying to sell to has a low trader rating and no other forms of feedback, that you will be more specific with your communication to him outlining what you want out of the deal. The feedback rating could also be used as yoru own person guide as to how far you will trust that person with such things as payment plans, waiting until thier payday, shipping first before receiving payment etc. I know on some forums that people will refuse to deal with a person unless they have a feedback of at least 10 or more. Other times I have delt with people with zero feedback and the transaction was perfect and no worries. Now after my ranting here, in your case it's a matter of how you feel, but if you think that the person made you feel you had come to the conclusion of a deal then yes, I might have left neutral feedback. I'm not saying this is a hard and fast rule, but if you feel that way then you should not feel bad for leaving it. A person will only learn how to be a good trader on a forum by learning and that means they have to be taught. If you feel you have good communication on your part, left the other person knowing how you would like to proceed (ask questions, get payment info), that you want to know a ya/nay answer on if he wishes to proceed with the transaction etc then yes nuetral feedback is needed. However, if you were just answering questions, with no clear and consice statement that you consider him to now be the future owener of said item, then I think it falls on your part to not leave feedback and to learn from the experiance to establish better communication in future deals. Don't forget, if you don't ask if he is 100% on the deal, then you never really know. If he doesn't say he's 100% into the deal then you don't know. This is what ultimatly has to be said by one of the people involved. __________________ Monthly Group Orders -=Gun Smithing=- -=Upgrades=- -=Parts=- -=Accessories=- Click Here To Read & Leave Feedback

July 30th, 2006, 15:08	#22
Optik Trader rating Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oshawa, ON	Well that a very good statement you made there. I think I'll just let this one slide because judging by what you said, I think we're both in the wrong. But one thing I can assure you I'm not one that presumes that one is 100% dead set on purchasing with just one or two questions lol. I might have to do some drastic price dropping appon next bump. I really need to sell this stuff to make room for new studio gear!

Buy and Sell negative ratings.

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