G&p m14 dmr

[phloudernow]

Dude seriously all in all, if you don't like TA then don't go there again no one is stopping you, no need to make a big fuss out of it, your gun could be the one in a million that was bound to break or something.

you don't have to make it like they committed a crime or something lol

[aZn_triXta07]

Would you buy a car before test driving it? No.

This isn't always the case for Airsoft guns if you buy them online but you actually went into the retail store to purchase it, you had the option of test firing it there so if the AEG really was D.O.A. Toronto Airsoft could have simply replaced the gun for you or refunded you your money. Nobody in the shop will stop you from emptying off a hicaps worth of BBs into the store range.

Even if you didn't test fire the gun at the store I imagine most folks would have that first on their list when they get home ... collectors are excluded as I know some fellas will buy a gun and let it collect dust in the box for months before setting it up on a mantle somewhere.

That being said you took it straight to a gun doctor to crack open (did they test fire it there to verify it was working before diving in?) and if the gun doc was experienced enough he/she would have realised the problem immediately and recommended a gear replacement. You mention this retailer is affiliated with Toronto Airsoft so I would imagine they'd know the warranty was void immediately the gun was opened and should have told you.

$500 for Airsoft is hardly considered much, being that the prices here are inflated in the first place your gun probably only cost $350 overseas. I paid $800 for a TM about 7 years ago and those ran for $250 overseas.

ASC isn't out to get you most of the guys here already said a set of SHS gears and you can get out to a game and have a good time.

[HackD]

Originally Posted by wildcard

VFC have had their issues as well, for a while there they use impact drivers to tightend their hop up resulting in broken hop and other issues too fortunately their QC has made vast improvement. Like I state before in some other thread companies like TM, KA and others have their growing pain and unfortunately some companies have grown too big to notice the little things, as for the frustration of needing to swap things out after spending $500 to make it shoot as it should well same can be said with PTW, however consider that G&P have to be upgraded with a stronger out of regular speced spring to make it import legal teh OP should have just let the original importer do the spring swap on site instead of his local affiliate. That way there are no confusion as to who is responsible.

Yes, you are correct, on both counts, In hind-sight i should have had them downgrade the spring, on-site, if this were a possibility.

However, i did have a few hindrances to doing this - I had no form of payment to 'reserve' a gun over the phone - if i were them, i wouldn't do anything unless there was a deposit on the gun in question - particularly with one in short supply that if i didn't buy, certainly someone else would in very short order. I did phone them ahead of time, and expressed concern about the 430fps issue - I did indicate that i wanted a downgraded spring (one of two additional things i asked about, other than gun availability, before i made the trip into Toronto) - there was no offer made to do a spring change on-site, on the phone. When i did arrive, I waited 1/2 hr before i had my turn at the counter - it was fairly obvious that it was a busy store-front, both at the counter, and in the back-room repair area. I don't think that it was a viable option to have the spring changed out on-site, right there and then. The offer was not made either, even though we spent extra time going over the appropriate downgrade spring options, as well as my reasons for wanting to get it downgraded.

Getting into Toronto for this the first go-around, was an adventure in itself - I am not really all that mobile for long trips due to temporary medical issues, and should really have done the trip via wheelchair van, not my car - I'll admit that this played into my decision to take the gun and spring and get back home to have the spring change done locally, with no additional pressuring of or offer by TA to do a spring change and pick-up on a later date. This, i will admit fault on, also.

I would certainly agree, that things could have been handled better - from both ends. I will also agree that my irritability has been heightened by being told that TA will assume no responsibility on a gun that broke on a spring, that should be mechanically safe for pretty much any other manufacturer's mechbox, coming out of the box new. Mechbox's aren't a black Art - I know my way around Ver. 2/3's pretty well, but the Ver. 7 being virgin territory, i decided to take it to someone else who did have plenty of experience with them.

As for the other posters pointing out that the warranty has been invalidated by the mechbox being opened up - well, again, this wouldn't be an issue really, if the mechbox components had been sound to begin with. It was only based upon the preliminary info that i'd read on G&P mechbox's breaking at 430fps+, that i decided to go with the spring change, concurrent to getting the rifle - it was meant to be a pro-active, trouble avoiding measure to make sure that any warranty available wouldn't be needed in the first place. I hadn't needed one with my ICS, or KJW, or my used 8 year old TM MP5. I guess that i got complacent.

The bottom line for me, basically, is that if the mechbox broke on an M95/365fps spring, it certainly would have grenaded on a M120(?)/430fps spring - it's a design fault issue at work here - so the issue of a warranty is kind of superfluous.. the mechbox/sector gear was fooked, whatever i did. As a consequence, i've been left holding the $500.00 bag, not having done anything that would explain a broken sector gear (except for having the gearbox cracked open as a preventative measure to preclude grenading a mechbox with an overly-powerful spring) - with no aid/assistance from TA, or G&P. This is what is souring my milk. Rightly, or wrongly on my part - Frank/TA is the name that sticks in my mind, when it comes to more money needed to be spent immediately, by his rather tepid response to the Hamilton retailer that went to bat for me on this issue.

Perhaps i allowed emotion to feed into my complaint in the RR section. I apologize for that. I don't get pissed easily, but when i do... i don't screw around with letting my feelings be known on any given issue.

As others have already said, Live and Learn. I just could have done without the attendant aggravation at this time.

[wildcard]

I understand your frustration I've experienced it myself with the gen 1 and 2 PTW that failed after less than a mag fresh out of the box if I had to do it all over again i would have test fired it at the place where I bought it from that way any issue or any defective parts can be remedied on the spot

[lt_poncho]

Warranties for Airsoft have traditionally been applicable in their country of origin. Historically retailers have tried their best to extend the range of that warranty, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the manufacturers told them they were SOL because it was sold in Canada and such, or because it was modified for export, or whatever other reason they choose to provide.

Historically it was TM that had the best out of the box reputation(Read: Japanese built); at the other end of that spectrum was Classic Army who pretty much used their customer base to component test their initial production lines until they got it right to some degree on version 6.2. A true slow motion train wreck.

Regardless of who what where don't ever fool yourself in thinking North America is the original intended target market for Airsoft. There are many other countries and continents that don't have such a pile of bullshit to sell model toy guns to contend with. Honestly I think retailers make it look too easy or accomodating when realistically not much has changed since the 90's; I can't imagine what they sometimes deal with. Props to Ken/007 for holding his breath the longest.

I think the message here is while shopping around do some asking around (ironically the basis of this dboard) before pulling the trigger on a purchase and before ripping someone else a new one because feelings are hurt; in consiceration of the replies here are first hand advice/experiences - free of charge.

[coach]

Originally Posted by lt_poncho

I think the message here is while shopping around do some asking around (ironically the basis of this dboard) before pulling the trigger on a purchase and before ripping someone else a new one because feelings are hurt; in consiceration of the replies here are first hand advice/experiences - free of charge.

Ironically, that was or appears to have been the intention of this thread. But an impulse purchase is an impulse purchase which can turn out the way this one did. Hamilton to Toronto is a long impulse buy!

Instead of waiting for opinions by the next day the m14 was already picked up, fondled, and then sent off to an unknown gundoc.

[MaciekA]

To summarize what everyone is saying, G&P gear failures are the biggest open secret in airsoft and you can't plead ignorance when making your case about the gear failure. In theory your advantage here is that Toronto Airsoft can also not hide behind ignorance, since this issue is typical of G&P mechboxes.

My advice is to do what I did.

Take the broken gear set to Toronto Airsoft in person and state your case. Say that you would like to RMA the gears through G&P and get some SHS ones as a free replacement if possible.

Be as polite as you can possibly be. Remember, both you and Frank are in this boat together -- it's not like he can personally fly to G&P's factory and tell them to stop doping their metallurgy with brittle dirt. The Canada-upgraded rifle inventory is bought at great business risk, at a higher cost. You chose to then shoulder this cost.

These are absolutely fine rifles, TM spec, fantastic externals, etc. But the gears are poop. I know this, you know this, Frank knows this. We all took this risk together. You can get through this, I promise, you just need to get over the hump of what is essentially a tiff over 30 dollars worth of gears. It won't be solved with debating with people here -- so I'd advise you to ignore the heartbreak of people here blaming the you and piling on and so on. Your post in the resolution forum will go much further.

You will be VERY happy with this rifle once you replace the gears.

[HackD]

My contact at the Hamilton retailer just let me know that he's got a complete set of Guarder gears coming in for the mechbox. It wasn't just the sector gear that spun off of it's axle - teeth sheared completely off one of the gears, and partially off of the other two. Literally, a mechbox implosion - a junkbox, if you will.

Won't be able to have it for this weekend - but at least it'll be good to go for the next game.

[lt_poncho]

Originally Posted by coach

Hamilton to Toronto is a long impulse buy!

Anyone remember Greylocks? He went down to AMC in Pacific Mall from Ottawa with the flu to purchase an 'upgraded' AMC TM MP5 - surprise! It didn't work for shit when he got to the field in Kingston. True story.

[HackD]

Just got the rifle back today, after a parts-ordering delay. Guarder gear-set installed, and in assembling and testing the rifle, the piston assembly was also found to be semi-fubar (rough-scuffing by head) so that was changed out also. Now shooting ~370-380fps as per where i wanted it to be at, on an 11.1v lipo. Yay.

Huge kudo's go out to Black Widow in Hamilton, for fixing this mess that TA had originally sold to me - he charged me no labor to fix it - he insisted on that - as partial compensation on a raw deal, that he really had no part in, to begin with. I guess being a regular customer has it's benefits.

[Long_Bong]

I m running a g&p m14 dmr, 450 semi lock, i m now thinking about changing the gear!!!!

Bong

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by HackD

for fixing this mess that TA had originally sold to me

Many many G&Ps sold worldwide have this problem. Go watch Maekiii (in Finland) or SHWELL11 (Florida) on YouTube -- both of these guys have seen many G&P rifles shatter their gears into little pieces. Ask any G&P owner on ASM. Ask many of the G&P owners on this forum. Ask Trev, whose G&P gears broke the night before I saw you at his last game. Ask me, who has ripped a full metal rack off a full metal G&P piston, broke a G&P gear set 3 times, and destroyed 2 G&P pinion gears (also mush). The net is soaked with G&P failure stories.

TA physically cannot improve this product themselves out of the box without (in this pricing environment) losing money and can really only sell what they got from G&P. Shame on the manufacturer, but also accept that you dropped the ball -- at least a little bit -- on research. If I had encountered your thread just a little sooner I would have peppered it with broken gear stories before you had added it to your cart. Hopefully in future purchases you'll wait a little longer, because airsoft is a caveat emptor minefield.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

Many many G&Ps sold worldwide have this problem. Go watch Maekiii (in Finland) or SHWELL11 (Florida) on YouTube -- both of these guys have seen many G&P rifles shatter their gears into little pieces. Ask any G&P owner on ASM. Ask many of the G&P owners on this forum. Ask Trev, whose G&P gears broke the night before I saw you at his last game. Ask me, who has ripped a full metal rack off a full metal G&P piston, broke a G&P gear set 3 times, and destroyed 2 G&P pinion gears (also mush). The net is soaked with G&P failure stories.

TA physically cannot improve this product themselves out of the box without (in this pricing environment) losing money and can really only sell what they got from G&P. Shame on the manufacturer, but also accept that you dropped the ball -- at least a little bit -- on research. If I had encountered your thread just a little sooner I would have peppered it with broken gear stories before you had added it to your cart. Hopefully in future purchases you'll wait a little longer, because airsoft is a caveat emptor minefield.

Any G&P AEG owner can and probably will tell you that they are great guns once you replaced the problematic spur gears, there are literally thousands of complaint about this on the web, this is not new unfortunately G&P has never made any changes or willingness to tackle the issue.

[HackD]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

TA physically cannot improve this product themselves out of the box without (in this pricing environment) losing money and can really only sell what they got from G&P. Shame on the manufacturer, but also accept that you dropped the ball -- at least a little bit -- on research. If I had encountered your thread just a little sooner I would have peppered it with broken gear stories before you had added it to your cart. Hopefully in future purchases you'll wait a little longer, because airsoft is a caveat emptor minefield.

See post #48 above - i do accept some responsibility on this overall situation.

Once bitten, twice shy, lesson learned. I've got it back in my greasy little mitts, and all is right in my little world again. I'll be sure to more properly do my homework before jumping in with two feet on product that may or may not be potentially defective, coming out of the box.

I can stop griping about it, and hopefully start enjoying it now.

Oh well, i've only got my sights (pun) lined up on one more, for my future arsenal - and i ain't seen too much in the way of bad coming up on Real Sword