|
|||||||||
|
Home | Forums | Register | Gallery | FAQ | Calendar |
Retailers | Community | News/Info | International Retailers | IRC | Today's Posts |
|
Thread Tools |
February 18th, 2011, 05:57 | #1 | |
formerly Sepulcrum
|
How to be an airsoft support gunner
Just got meself a saw and decided to search our great interwebz for knowledge from those who've been using them for years. I've been in the force so I knew better then most how to properly implement the LMG but I've seen SO many that do not, thus I am posting my findings in hope that they see it and learn.
For me it's all just a confirmation that the LMGs use in real combat is still pretty much the same in airsoft. Every thing in this quote is a copy paste from another user on another airsoft forum Linky: http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Su...#entry17996102 Enjoy. Quote:
|
|
February 18th, 2011, 12:46 | #2 |
Good stuff.
|
|
February 18th, 2011, 12:51 | #3 |
Prancercise Guru
|
That's a nice post right there. Other thoughts;
Bring more ammo! You'll be burning through BBs pretty fast even if you're not hosing. Don't discount the psychological effect. Just showing yourself, or your gun can be enough to cause the enemy to change tactics. If you're in a built up type environment & suppressing look for some plywood or reveting, or tin etc. to shoot at near your targets. Make that rattle while your team flanks. Have a way to communicate with your team since you'll be on your own. Radio, whistle blasts etc. They can tell you when to shift fire, and you can call in to them if you see a need to adjust the attack.
__________________
Airsoft, where nothing is hurt but feelings. |
February 18th, 2011, 13:02 | #4 |
E-01
|
Only partially agree. That might work well as part of a very large group, but there are other (arguably more effective, from my experience) way of deploying SAWs.
__________________
|
February 18th, 2011, 13:33 | #5 | |
THE AIRSOFT AUTOMATIC WEAPON OPERATOR'S GUIDE
http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forum...owtopic=190412
__________________
Latest Infractions Received : Being a dumb ass - Inspired by pusangani Quote:
sexy time |
||
February 18th, 2011, 20:18 | #6 |
Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
|
It all comes down to who you play with and where. Everyone's tactics adapt to where they play and who they play with.
|
February 18th, 2011, 22:04 | #7 |
Le Roi des poissons d'avril
|
A SAW gunner in a squad will respond to contacts with a large volume of supressing fire alowing your team to move. Even if the gunner don't see anything, he should fire in the general direction of the ennemy, at likely positions.
I don't agree with people that say the SAW gunner will be left along at the rear to shoot and cover. When your squad has bounded and is assuming adequat supressive or effective fire of their own, it's your turn to bound. It happen very quickly, in a sustained fashion. There should be no interuption of fire during the manuver, keeping the ennemy pinned down and unable to return fire.
__________________
Vérificateur d'âge: Terrebonne |
February 18th, 2011, 22:21 | #8 |
Official ASC Bladesmith
|
SAW gunners tend to make the most noise, giving me a direction to shoot at.
|
February 18th, 2011, 22:30 | #9 |
Le Roi des poissons d'avril
|
Agreed. Machine gun operators are priority targets for snipers.
__________________
Vérificateur d'âge: Terrebonne |
February 18th, 2011, 23:40 | #10 |
Ban-Fu Sifu
|
Then again all of you are priority targets for my SAWs...... and I have the ammo, range, accuracy and rate of fire to deal with it...
A gunner covers his squads movement then it's the squads turn to cover the gunners movement...
__________________
Vondnik, team Bad Karma, PQAC Murphy's second rule: Nothing is impossible for the man who does not have to do it himself. |
February 19th, 2011, 00:36 | #11 |
Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture!
|
I used to have a fireteam partner that was ex-CF, c9 gunner
We were unstoppable, bounding forward with two M249's is a pretty hard thing to deal with lol But from the sniper's perspective, I deal with this often, we always play in our little CQB area on our airsoft field during the winter, and most people have AEG's. I do better with my sniper rifle in there than my AEG. You can snap shoot with a sniper rifle and if your good that BB goes exactly where you want it every time. Whereas AEG's have some inaccuracy by nature. Not to mention, if someone think's their safe behind cover, or shooting at me from a 3" crack, they're definitely not safe. Most people tend to panic when they get shot at, so they either cower behind cover or shoot frantically trying to hit the target. All you have to do is stay calm, aim, shoot, targets down. Most people tend to become more frantic the more time they see the barrel trained on them and the more time goes by without hitting you. Stalker knows what I'm talking about lol LMG's are awesome and what not, but the sniper rifle accomplishes with one BB what the LMG does with 200. And if your talking about suppression, did you know you can suppress a target with accurate fire from a sniper rifle? You get guys shooting from small cracks in cover, you shoot enough people at that crack, and they stop using it. Soon enough they stop popping up to look for targets. Then they stop going to that location But don't get me wrong, 20 people are charging you, the LMG is most definitely the way to go! |
February 19th, 2011, 06:34 | #12 | |
Official ASC Bladesmith
|
Quote:
Ya, I have zero support gunner experience and know full well the effect they have on the field, but the gunners are also the best target to take out first, not because of their role, but because of the psychological effect it has on the rest of the squad. Just like getting swarmed, you take out the biggest baddest mofo and the rest get less confident because they were counting on the strength of the gunner. I got pinned down by a gunner at one point, I was behind a tower, he was in the tree shadows on a hill, I couldn't get too many shots off with my rifle due to the pressure of BBs, but I was able to locate him from the bursts coming at me, and I almost got him a couple times, but I was stuck there for a good 5mins before I got hit. Gunners don't do much to me from the fear factor, DMs and snipers are the real pain in the ass. Kinda like "Noisy and easy to find, bang, he's out" compared to "Fuck, that came out of no where, crap!" and try to get as small as possible and find the bugger. Luckily I haven't had too many times coming under fire from a sniper, but that does stress me out. Almost as much as being near my squad's support gunner. Lol |
|
February 19th, 2011, 17:07 | #13 |
cranky old man
|
agree with Stalker and FOX
__________________
MODT - tu fui ego eris |
February 20th, 2011, 19:09 | #14 |
Ther is some good info discussed on Arnies, in the Foxhole.
The following is taken from two lads over there: Key - R- Rifleman S- SAW G- 203 Gunner F- Fireteam Leader SL - Squad Leader Basic Squad and Fireteam Formations Wedge The wedge formation is the basic formation for most fireteams in open terrain. It will not remain a perfect wedge, as the team must manuever around objects. Terrain will dictate how tight the wedge will be, or the distance in which the fireteam leader feels he has the most control of his team. Move to Contact Moving to contact is an extremely simple thing, and virtually everything the infantryman does revolves around moving to contact. When moving to contact the squad/fireteam will move forward until fired upon. Once the squad/team makes contact, several things will take place. 1.) The squad/fireteam takes cover(going prone, or getting as low as possible behind hard cover), and yelling the 3 Ds. The three Ds are Direction, Discription, Distance(in no particular order). Ex. "12 O'Clock, 2 men, 150 meters!" This will be repeated by everyone as it moves down the line, so everyone has a general idea of what is taking place. 2.) The team who makes contact will get on line, and attempt to gain fire superiority by going into a cyclic rate of fire, and putting as many rounds downrange as possible. 3.) The squad leader will move foward and assess the situation. 4.) Once the squad leader has moved forward he will make one of several decisions: A.) Initiate squad attack B.) Break Contact C.) Get his entire squad on line, and call for reinforcements Squad Attack Reduced: 68% of original size [ 744 x 870 ] - Click to view full image 1.) The squad will move to contact 2.) Once the squad makes contact, the lead fireteam will attempt to gain fire superiority. When the squad leader feels this has been accomplished, he will move forward to the lead fireteam's leader. The rear team will pull 360 degree security. The lead team will drop to a sustained rate of fire. When the squad leader gets to the team leader, he will assess the situation based on what the fireteam leader has reported, and determine if he is going to flank left, or right. 3.) After this decision has been made, the squad leader will move to the rear fireteam, and tell them what is taking place ahead, and what direction they will be flanking. In the above illustration, the squad leader has decided to flank right. 4.) The team will make an exaggerated manuever to the right, getting out of sight of the enemy, approximately 150 to 200 meters away from the enemy position. As the flanking team gets closer to that flank, the support by fire team(the lead fireteam) will pick up its rate of fire to a cyclic rate. The squad leader will center the team as best he can on the enemy position. Once he has done so, he will give the signal for "shift fire"(represented by the blue lines). When this signal is given the support by fire team will fire to the right of the enemy position as not to hit friendly troops if they get onto the enemy position. 5.) The flanking team will now begin to IMT(Individual Movement Techniques, or buddy team bounding) to the objective. The team will not open fire until the last possible moment, whether it be that they are discovered, or until the squad leader gives the order. They will continue to IMT through the "objective"(the enemy position) killing the enemy, and kicking the weapons of the enemy to the side. The team will keep moving until the reach the LOA(Limit of Advance), which is usually 35 meters(out of hand grenade range) from the objective. The signal for the LOA will be given by the squad leader, and will be repeated by everyone in the assaulting team. Once the LOA has been reached, the squad leader will give the "lift fire" command, which is firing on targets of opportunity if they arrise(Ex: an enemy combatant picks up a weapon). The assaulting team will pull security. 6.) The support by fire team will now pickup their weapons and equipment, and bound through the objective, until they reach their LOA. If a threat arrises, they will eliminate it. Once they reach their LOA, they will also pull security. 7.) The squad leader will now move to the apex of the "triangle" formed by the two teams at their LOA. He will then yell for an ACE report(Ammo, Casualties, Equipment), which will contain how much ammo each man has, if they are wounded(the team leader will physically check) and how much water each man has. The team leader will gather the required info, and report back to the squad leader. The squad leader will then report to his highers. Each team will redistribute ammunition, then pickup, and carry on with the mission. LINEAR AMBUSH(could also be considered a hasty ambush) Reduced: 70% of original size [ 726 x 619 ] - Click to view full image 1.) The squad leader will set up an ORP(Operational Rally Point). This will be done approximately 200 to 300 meters away from the ambush point. Here, the squad will assign special teams, and distribute special equipment(claymores, anti-tank weapons for special equipment, EPW and Demolition teams) if it hasn't been done before the operation. This point will be the point in which the team will return to after the ambush. After this is completed the squad leader will take the security teams fireteam leader, and SAW, and conduct leader's recon. What the squad leader is looking for is the point in which he wants to conduct the ambush, and he is getting a general idea of where he wants to place all this men. Now, the squad leader will return to the ORP. 2.) The squad will now leave their ORP(and be counted out by the squad leader). When they arrive on site, the security teams will be sent between 50 to 75 meters from the rest of the squad on the left, and right of the ambushing fireteam. Their job is to ensure that the ambushing fireteam isn't discovered by enemy patrols or scout elements. As the enemy approaches the position they will also make sure that there are no rear elements that might be able to counter attack, or re-enforce the ambushed units. The ambushing fireteam will be hand placed by the squad leader. Claymore will also be placed by the squad leader where he feels they will be most effective. 3.) When the enemy squad approaches, the first element to sight them will send a count of enemy troops. As they approach the ambushing fireteams position, the squad leader will wait until they get into the kill zones of the claymore mines. When the squad leader is ready, the claymores will be set off. This initiates the ambush. The fireteam will open up with everything they have. They will fire until one minute has passed, and if they enemy is still moving, will continue to fire for another 30 seconds. 4.) Now the enemy has been eliminated. The ambushing fireteam will begin movement at a high rate of speed to the ORP, along with the squad leader. The squad leader will count his men coming in. 5.) After the ambushing team has arrived at the ORP, the security teams will be pulled in, and counted by the squad leader. Ammunition will now be redistributed, and the squad will carry on with the mission. REACT TO NEAR AMBUSH Reduced: 72% of original size [ 707 x 656 ] - Click to view full image First, lets discuss the difference between a near, and far ambush. A near ambush is an ambush that takes place within hand grenade distance(35 meters). A far ambush is an ambush that takes palce outside of hand grenade range. Now, we will discuss what to do in case of a near ambush. Reacting to a near ambush can be done in several ways. 1.) While moving in a wedge formation, the squad recieves fire from their left flank. Someone in the team will yell the 2Ds(Distance, Direction). 2.) The squad will now attempt to get on line. In this case, the rear fireteam has been able to set up what will become a flanking manuever, and will now begin to pour on the fire. The first fireteam will now begin to assault through the ambush, and a shift fire signal will be given. 3.) The first fireteam will move to their LOA, and the signal for LOA will be given. The rear fireteam will move through the enemy position to their LOA. 4. Once all the teams have moved into position, the squad leader will move to the apex of the teams, and get the ACE report. The squad leader will report actions to the higher, ammo will be redistributed, and the team will keep moving. Keep in mind that if the ambush was properly executed, everyone will be dead. A far ambush can be less catastrophic on the squad than a near ambush, and reacting can be the same. In a far ambush, instead of assaulting through, the team may want to break contact, and bombard the enemy with artillery. ---------------- Glockguy's tactics are good if you have a squad you can actually practice with prior to events. Me I tend to fall into the pickup squads, so I always try to take 30secs with my usually newfound friends and tell them how best to use me. I tell them basically: keep me in visual sight, and when you want me to suppress an area, point with full four fingers (to distinguish from just pointing something out) and thats it. I also then stress when I'm laying suppression its not just for drama - as you won't tend to get kills during it - the enemy bunkers down. So when I'm suppressing I tell my squad to MOVE and get angles on them. THEY get the kills not me. I find if you don't take the time to tell them that what most players do when you let loose with a long volley is just to sit and watch the show. Which is ultimately a waste of your bbs and everyone's time. ----------------- Remember in airsoft concealment and cover are the same thing. Exactly as they are not in real life. Hide in tall grass in real life and the enemy may not be able to see you but when they let loose a volley in to the reeds you'll be just as dead as if you'd been standing in an open field. Hide in tall grass in airsoft and you might as well be in a concrete bunker. Grass stops airsoft bbs like chobham armor stops tankshells. So don't get mad if you send 1,000 bbs downrange into leaves and such and don't hit anything. Sure you can cut thru leaves with a long volley, but even so pretty much everything in the path to your target area will deflect a bb down to the lightest of leaves and bugs. Don't spaz because someone who's lieing behind a pile of twigs is not calling their hits: its perfectly possible they are NOT getting hit. But don't worry - what they ARE hearing is your hail of fire pinking off everything around them and they are pinned - meanwhile your riflemen are lining up the killshot. Feel good. Fear is as fun to inflict as kills. ----------------- The other thing you need to watch out for is tunnel vision. If you're suppressing an area, you WILL become a primary target. Any and all flankers WILL be going for angles on YOU. Keep your head on a swivel, or fire from positions with cover on both sides of you. ----------------- Always stay behind the main line. Never get sucked into going point. and you will always get asked to go first. I somehow always seem to end up in front of my teammates. A SAW gunner on Point is an oxymoron... You are pretty worthless up there: even with the STAR's light plastic weight you will never bring a MkII up to engage position faster than an opponent rifleman. Well, if you can carry your saw around in perpetual ready-carry position all day, go for it. You are stronger than I ever will be, and I'm no shrinking violet... ---------------- Having said all that - as a SAW gunner you have the unique ability to CREATE moving cover. That is, never underestimate the SAWs ability to make an otherwise concealed and covered enemy feel like they are naked in a spotlight on center stage. If you need to cross an opening, do not be afraid to just stand up and let a CONTINUOUS burst rake the known enemy position and do a walking advance. Watch how fast your squad moves out when they see you doing this. Massive moral boost. BUT - be SURE you know where your enemy is - you'll be the fool when you walk into the opening suppressing the enemy in front of you and the guy you didn't know about nails you in the side... Still, every SAW gunner has to do the walking cover fire once in their life. Few things better in airsoft. ---------------- Next is not tactics but technical bits. ---------------- Lubing - I lube the ###### out of my gearbox. Every event I shoot some lube into the gearbox. If I can't pull that off before an event I at least fire some into the qujick change spring release hole. There is no such thing as too much grease in a gearbox. ---------------- BUT... there IS such a thing as too much grease in the cylinder, hopup, magazines, etc. Cant' speak to the TOP and STAR (though I imagine they're the same) but on the CA if you greae up the the magazines and/or the cylinder/nozzle it will take you a good half day to get your hopup dried out enough that its actually working well. Hundreds even thousands of rounds. BE CAREFUL! if you do have to grease your mags and barrel and whatnot and are running with a wet hopup for hte morning keep an eye on your bb flightpaths. At some point in the day (say around lunchtime more or less depending on the # of rounds you fire) you'll notice your bb's start to rise dramatically. Thats the hopup starting to grip correctly. IMMEDIATELY dial back hopup. As in right now, even if you're in a firefight. The amount of hopup you had dialed in in the morning that worked for your wet hopup chamber and barrel and bbs is WAY TOO MUCH once the rubber really starts gripping. You run the risk of a jam. So take the 30 seconds and dial down that hop. --------------- As for lubing the mags, I do that maybe once a season. The barrel... if you can clean it without wetting the hopup do so before each event - pure silicon oil works, but if you have the time to dissassemble and such, nothing touches brass cleaner for an ultra smooth clean barrel. It DOES make a fps and accuracy difference. But, remembering you're a SAW gunner... accuracy is, well, not top priority. Reliability and volume are your targets. --------------- Winding - I always wind the box mag until I hear the internal spring in it pop pop popping. Meaning I've got a full wind of the spring. On my gun this is good for 100 or so rds before I have to start winding. If you don't wind that much you might dryfire a good % of your starting volley. I like the combo of spring+motor to feed bbs as opposed to just relying on the motor because no boxmags, not the STAR's not TOP's, not MAG's not CA's can keep up just on boxmag motor with a saw with a fast enough rof. BUT - winding always to spring tension will put more strain on your boxmag as you walk around waiting for an engagement with it wound up. If you do maintenance on your boxmag pay attention to the windaxlewhere the spring attaches to the axle. Thats where it'll let loose first. (All the box mags are the same design on this). Its not a big deal if the spring comes unattached to the axle or even snaps there, just guide some more spring into the axle grooves - its alot like feeding weedwhacker wire). ----------------- Also, occasionally give the feeder tube a wiggle as you're walking about. ----------------- Boxmags make great improvised bipods. Catridge pouches do not. ----------------- Spring guide - on the STARs when you use position 2 as its been called (basically shoving the spring guide into the box mag further so the catch catches on the springguide's back instead of its notch - btw you can do the very same thing on the CA and the PCG for the TOP, but there's no need to since they shoot the correct fps in the stoc position, heh - if you do do that, or even if you're in stock position... check to see if when you fold your rear stock up if it touches the spring guide. If not, you can stuff some clothe or such in there. Does a couple things - lowers the "Banging" of the springguide on decompression cycles - you carry more of the back reaction to the receiver and your shoulder, which will move less, meaning more of the decompression momentum energy of the spring is transferred to the cylinder's velocity = morefps. Its minute, so its up to you. I personally like the idea of the gun's body structurally supporting the springguide on it's center axis. Some may feel this is not a big deal or worth it. I've yet to have my gun fail in a single event over three hundred thousand rounds, however. Either way, take it for the anecdotal advice it is. ---------------- Inner barrel - this is a CA thing. Specifically a MkII thing. I wind some electrical tape around my innerbarrel at the end for a snug fit inside the outbarrel. Yes there are some spacers in the in a couple places down the length of the barrel to locate it, but after I locked my saw onto a shooting bench and checked it out I got much tighter groupings with that little bit of tape providing extra rigidity. Also - it helps keep water and dirt and mud out of the outer barrel's interior. Clean = good. ---------------- Allen wrench - Keep an allen wrench taped to the inside of the pistol grip inside the compartment there if your gun has it. That way you can change batteries bia the buttplate in the field without having to go back to your car for the tool. Use good tape, don't rely on the compartment door to hold it... |
|
February 21st, 2011, 13:52 | #15 |
All in all, I wouldn't argue that either support role is more effective than the other. I am the only SAW gunner at the field I play at, and there are a few snipers. I've found, assuming both roles are being properly executed, it all comes down to the mentality of the target. Some people are more afraid of taking one hit from an unknown location, some people are more afraid of volume of fire. We play in fairly dense woods, so there are plenty of places for a good marksman to hide. I know from personal experience how much it can rattle you, hearing nothing but one BB smacking off of a tree, the split second you get to wonder if it was a twig being stepped on before your fired on again. That being said, I've found that seeing that SAW can cause the shooter to get more frantic. If the first shot misses, the second shot usually does too. Seeing a full length 249 swing around towards you can be pretty rattling as well. I had one instance where the sniper just put his head down and covered his neck after his first shot to prepare for my volley of plastic. I will be the first to admit though, that there are players out there who would react completely differently. As i said, depends who your playing with. As a side note, I would like to say I have a lot of respect for snipers in airsoft. It's a difficult role to play, and requires a lot of patience and dedication, and it is something i know i wouldn't be able to pull off, at least not without a lot of practice and researching.
|
|
|
Bookmarks |
|
|