HAWKS Compact IR Laser + Green Laser Combo

[grantmac]

Stupid question here:
IR for NVG use is to prevent those without NVGs from seeing the designator, I get that.

Why not just run an extremely low power visible laser? Something which is virtually undetectable with the naked eye but obviously quite bright with NVGs? My experience (PVS-7) is that LEDs which are nearly invisible to the naked eye (even after good adaption) shine like crazy with the NVGs.

Obviously not useful for the extended engagement ranges of real-steel weapons, but useful for airsoft purposes.

-Grant

[ThunderCactus]

Because it's very difficult to find anything DBAL/ANPEQ with a class 1 anything under $600. Let alone one you can import yourself.
Class 1 red is also brighter than class 1 IR due to having different classifications applied.

There's two ways to test lasers on the field.
1) The super simple and inaccurate method in which you check the brightness of two IR lasers, one built as class 1 and whatever the other one is, under night vision.
The difference between a 5mW and 1mW beam is HUGE. Like very easily identifiably large. With no exaggeration it's like the difference between a 60 lumen and 200 lumen light. You can even tell the difference between a 2mW and 1mW beam. BUT it obviously doesn't give you an actual number.

2) Bring a laser power meter to games. They're only ~$450, and if you really cared that much about everyone running class 1 lasers, you'd have one at games anyway. (like really, some guys out there have $15,000 thermals and ANVIS9's and nobody spent a measly $450 on a laser power meter?)
Seriously, why do you think testing laser output is impossible? It's the 21st century. You don't need a hadron collider to do it.


I AM trying to find someone who will supply documentation with the testing to get them actually certified, for liability's sake. To elaborate, every single unit will be tested, there will be no assumptions at all. But if you don't accept a laser with an official certification, then don't run lasers at all.

Until then, I'm willing to buy a laser power meter and bring it to JOC night games so they can "chrono" the modded lasers on the spot.

[mcguyver]

There is no need to buy a laser power meter. If it isn't name-brand with documentation, it should be banned. Guys buy an ITAR-prohibited PVS-14, but buy a a shitty laser? Get an OTAL, or DBAL from Insight. Problem solved.

If you can't afford it, learn to use a $50 clone Eotech on low.

There are no acceptable excuses.

[Canadian Psycho]

Mcguyver speaks the truth

[lurkingknight]

it's that simple. no lasers, PERIOD.


at NF3 GC said certified only, non visible lasers with paperwork cleared personally by game control.... I, the rest of my squad and several others witnessed several VISIBLE lasers being used at night, and when challenged to prove he had been cleared, the player yelled profanities back at the person that said he was going to bring game control to come over. We didn't even find the jackass that had it either, we just saw it through some smoke.

No lasers, no confusions. you see one, you know it's not allowed. period.

[Azathoth]

Definitely getting off track here. Should we all dive back into one of the many other IR laser threads or laser threads?

[Derpystronk]

The other laser threads exist because everyone keeps trying to take short cuts as it relates to lasers... Which no one cares if you can get a Class 1 laser for 50 dollars or 2500 dollars, as long as it comes from a source that you can say "Hey look, this laser is a brand name real steel product"

People keep trying to show up with things made from a sweat shop factory in Nowhereville, China... and half the time those things are literally counterfeits, even if they come from a respected company like G&P.

I have no problem with people using a scientific method to figure out if a laser is verifiably class 1. I've done it myself. I have a selection of lasers I know the outputs of, and it's easy if a laser matches either .1mw, .7mw, or 5mw output, or falls somewhere in between. That is great, but it falls apart if the wavelength of the laser is different than what you are comparing it to. A 850nm laser would look different than a 720nm laser - but China may still sell them both as "IR", and the NVG's respond to those wavelegnths differently.

The G&P DBAL on "low power" is not really lowering it's output, it is just strobing really fast. It's the same beam output just a strobe. When you flip it to high power, it is no longer strobing. The power output doesn't change.

I'm more tolerant than most hosts when it comes to what lasers I'll allow on the field. To this day I'm still the only host who allows red lasers to be used that I know of (and with zero complaints to that end so far), but I also demand that the lasers be real steel as well. Red or IR, doesn't matter. Real steel. There are very limited exceptions that come under a lot of scrutiny and it usually requires me to fiddle with it myself before I give the all clear.

The sorts of lasers you can buy from people on eBay with usernames like TOTALSUPPLYSTOREHK or MagicTrustShop I don't believe belong on the field. When you click on HAWKS Amazon store you see this:



I just do not need that sort of stuff in my life, especially a laser that will used on everyone else except the person who bought it.

[BioRage]

Originally Posted by gbbr

i like the lazors

ressurected.

[JosephSSmith]

Class 1 IR lasers are good for eye safety these are equipped with a <0.7mW eye-safe IR laser which is not so harmful for eyes, it is easy to found it in many sites but didn't find any combined with green laser.

[AlexGPS]

Guys isnt there lenses that can decrease the intensity or power of certain lasers? Im pretty sure there are since it can be done with flashlights. I know, i know, flashlights arent the same thing as lasers but still mw's are the same when it comes to a beam in your eyes.

[Derpystronk]

Originally Posted by AlexGPS

Guys isnt there lenses that can decrease the intensity or power of certain lasers? Im pretty sure there are since it can be done with flashlights. I know, i know, flashlights arent the same thing as lasers but still mw's are the same when it comes to a beam in your eyes.

There are, but since you are essentially filtering out wavelengths of light to do so, you are reducing the amount of light hitting your eye. In short using them at night time is not really a solution since you are just making it even MORE difficult to see.

For lasers it just solves the problem to have real ones on the field.

[~Ghost~]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Because it's very difficult to find anything DBAL/ANPEQ with a class 1 anything under $600. Let alone one you can import yourself.
Class 1 red is also brighter than class 1 IR due to having different classifications applied.

There's two ways to test lasers on the field.
1) The super simple and inaccurate method in which you check the brightness of two IR lasers, one built as class 1 and whatever the other one is, under night vision.
The difference between a 5mW and 1mW beam is HUGE. Like very easily identifiably large. With no exaggeration it's like the difference between a 60 lumen and 200 lumen light. You can even tell the difference between a 2mW and 1mW beam. BUT it obviously doesn't give you an actual number.

2) Bring a laser power meter to games. They're only ~$450, and if you really cared that much about everyone running class 1 lasers, you'd have one at games anyway. (like really, some guys out there have $15,000 thermals and ANVIS9's and nobody spent a measly $450 on a laser power meter?)
Seriously, why do you think testing laser output is impossible? It's the 21st century. You don't need a hadron collider to do it.


I AM trying to find someone who will supply documentation with the testing to get them actually certified, for liability's sake. To elaborate, every single unit will be tested, there will be no assumptions at all. But if you don't accept a laser with an official certification, then don't run lasers at all.

Until then, I'm willing to buy a laser power meter and bring it to JOC night games so they can "chrono" the modded lasers on the spot.

HELL yes!!! I hate the mentality of the leetests!!! So very true If the power measured (is legally documented) and is the same how the hell can they be denied? That's like saying the kid with the JG AEG cant play because his doesn't have the consistency of a ptw...like all of the ptw users have...... yet after chono they prove the power is the same and legal!!!

So what if they measured the same and its documented? what then is the difference other then some leetest whiner or his hurt feelings? Or the monopoly on Canadians for that market??

Sorry but once tested and documented AND proven, regardless of where it came from if power outage is locked, Its proven safe!!!

So yes if a host or field has doubts then spend the 450$, silly for hosts to deny all who meet a requirement based on make lol, again reverts back to the jg or G&G kid its leetest and or brandist..also not very fair to the every day guy!

Its silly to limit those who cant afford what the leetests can lmfao! I've been in the CF Army for 9 years and I wouldn't drop that coin for my job(the real deal) lmfao let alone on airsoft!!!! For what maybe a game or three a year lol? that offer those options!!!!

A soldiers 2 cents

Cheers Gents,
~Ghost~

[brock0]

It's not "leetest" to want to protect your sight.

[Cobrajr122]

Originally Posted by brock0

It's not "leetest" to want to protect your sight.

Or more importantly, the sight of others. How would you feel being responsible for another persons sight loss because you were to cheap to be safe.

I also fail to see why you (~Ghost~) would not want a high quality product for a real firearm on a real mission. Besides the quality of the laser the difference in price brings on the extreme ruggedness both externally and internally required to survive the abuse it will no doubt see in the military, along with some extra cost just cus government contract.

Would you buy repro optics as well? Seems like a good way to have shit break and fail prematurely, not to mention they just not work as well as the real deal.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by ~Ghost~

HELL yes!!! I hate the mentality of the leetests!!! So very true If the power measured (is legally documented) and is the same how the hell can they be denied? That's like saying the kid with the JG AEG cant play because his doesn't have the consistency of a ptw...like all of the ptw users have...... yet after chono they prove the power is the same and legal!!!

So what if they measured the same and its documented? what then is the difference other then some leetest whiner or his hurt feelings? Or the monopoly on Canadians for that market??

Sorry but once tested and documented AND proven, regardless of where it came from if power outage is locked, Its proven safe!!!

So yes if a host or field has doubts then spend the 450$, silly for hosts to deny all who meet a requirement based on make lol, again reverts back to the jg or G&G kid its leetest and or brandist..also not very fair to the every day guy!

Its silly to limit those who cant afford what the leetests can lmfao! I've been in the CF Army for 9 years and I wouldn't drop that coin for my job(the real deal) lmfao let alone on airsoft!!!! For what maybe a game or three a year lol? that offer those options!!!!

A soldiers 2 cents

Cheers Gents,
~Ghost~

Then how about those who cheap out on a laser spend $450 on testing for it to prove it is safe?

It is not up to the field owner or game org to do that.

No ratings, no sticker, no dice.

Not a hard concept, unless one feels they are entitled to own the world on their terms, and everybody owes them.

Those people just show up with 30mW units because they are lowlife losers who don't care about others. Hardly the type of folks who should be allowed at games anyway.