Lasers in airsoft for Dummies

c3sk · January 3rd, 2015, 20:55

Since there have been a lot of threads bringing up the same old discussion over and over again, it is time to consolidate everything to a single thread to help distribute factual information about Lasers (Mainly IR lasers) in Canada, and in Airsoft.

First and foremost, as per 2011 Health Canada Safety, which follows the US FDA guidelines for safe laser usage. Any laser above Class 3R has been deemed prohibited for sale under the Consumer Protection Act. More information here

1. What lasers are legal to use in Canada?

Class 1
Class 1M
Class 2
Class 2M
Class 3R

2. Does this mean my Airsoft laser could land me in hot water?
That depends on the classification and use. If you own a laser in the prohibited class (Over 3R), while owning the laser after 2011 may not be a punishable offense, use of the laser is still controlled. If you were to cause injury to an individual with the laser, you could be charged.

3. What about Military Lasers? AN/PEQ-15's, AN/PEQ-2's?
As per the classification on the device, these are Class 3B laser units and are prohibited for sale. Many of these lasers are able to produce a Lower Class 1(Eye safe) beam, however, the classification is based off the maximum capability of the device. In this case, the highest power setting.

4. What legal lasers can generally be used at Airsoft Games in Canada?
Class 1 lasers have been widely accepted at Canadian hosted Airsoft events, mainly in the Ontario region. This is due to the Class 1 rating being the safest rating a laser device can receive, where as no eye damage can occur under all conditions of normal use. Even if you were to look directly into the laser beam, no damage or injury would occur.

5. I want to make my own Class 1 Laser.
You can! However other individuals may not want your home made laser used on them at games. Remember, it is their eyes at risk, not yours.

6. This is confusing, I blew all my money on Nightvision, and now I need a cheap affordable laser to go with it, but it has to be legit? What do!?
There are many legal and civilian available lasers now available on the market which will suit your needs. Many, if not all of these lasers have been accepted at Airsoft games provided you have the proper paperwork prooving the legitimacy of your eye safe laser.

Living List of legal civilian lasers accepted at games in Canada:
Note: Be mindful regarding clones of these products. Knockoff G&P Dbal clone lasers are capable of producing output above Class 3R. This lands them in the prohibited category.
(There may be other lasers not on this list, these are the most common)

LDI DBAL-I² Class 1 IR Laser

LDI CQBL-1 Class1 IR Laser

LDI DBAL-PL Class 1 IR Laser

LDI DBAL-D2 Class 1 IR Laser

LDI OTAL/ITAL Class 1 IR Laser

Wilcox RAPTAR Lite ES Class1 Infrared Laser

LaserMax LMS UNI-IR Class 1 IR Laser
Now available here

Streamlight TLR-2 IRW Class 1 IR Laser
Now available here

If possible, I will be updating this list as well as adding Canadian sellers for these laser devices. Currently Canadian Retailer I Run Guns has been selling LDI Laser products. It is only a matter of time before more reputable companies start selling them.

Stryker · January 3rd, 2015, 21:33

Excellent post!

ShelledPants · January 3rd, 2015, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by odog654

Can someone pm me a place were you can purchase lasers.

I Run Guns is literally linked in c3sk's post.

Ricochet · January 3rd, 2015, 23:47

There's a huge difference between legal and eye safe. Both a butter-knife and a chainsaw are legal for use, but I wouldn't give my 3 year old the latter.

AlexGPS · January 3rd, 2015, 23:52

Guys i think this should be stickied. Its something a lot of people are interested including myself. Im not in any financial term to buy such a thing but it would be nice to have it standby for when i do.

ThunderCactus · January 3rd, 2015, 23:55

Good post, should be referred to every time something about lasers comes up.
I would also add in the time it takes to damage a cornea with a .5mW laser versus a 5mW laser.
But to answer the questions asked on the last thread that was locked before I could reply:

1) This is not a Chinese laser, with a Chinese class 1 sticker, rated by a Chinese source. That would be extremely irresponsible and I'm pretty sure it would leave me open to some pretty costly lawsuits.
It would be a modified Chinese laser, SERIALIZED, with a NORTH AMERICAN class 1 sticker, rated by a NORTH AMERICAN reputable source, with NORTH AMERICAN documentation, which has the particular serial number of the unit on it. It would be under no less scrutiny than a real DBAL I². And if I cannot get those EXACT requirements, then I simply won't go ahead with this. Simple as that.

The comment of "You have gen3 nvd, and two ptws, but you can't afford a real class 1 laser?":
Yes, I can absolutely afford to spend $1600 on a class 1 laser.
But others cannot.
I have gen3 night vision, I don't even NEED a class 1 laser since I can aim with my iron sights.
But people with gen1 and gen2 can't. Therefore they'll use IR lasers. You think someone who paid $500 for their night vision is going to spend $1200-$1600 on a real class 1 laser? Significantly less likely than someone who spent $3500.
So we ban anything but trusted class 1 lasers at major night games. Great, we've fixed the issue for everyone going to those big milsims.
But people will still run them at their own fields, in other games, risking other people's eyes.
However, those people who are picking up $160 G&P DBALs or $120 8mw IR lasers might not be opposed to spend a bit extra to make sure it's not going to blind anyone.

Let me make it ABUNDANTLY clear that my goal is not to find a sneaky way to acquire a shadily tested class 1 laser for my own use to save a few dollars and put everyone's eyesight at risk.

My goal is to find a way to supply people with adequately tested and marked and documented IR lasers at a reasonable price so they won't put THEIR friend's eyesight at risk.

I'm not trying to save money here, I'm trying to help you accomplish YOUR goal, with a much broader demographic, in a way that would be no less accurate than the real deal.
And with me behind the project, it's at least a name people can vouch for, as opposed to johnny nobody airsoft retailer who just wants to cash in on a niche market.

Derpystronk · January 3rd, 2015, 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexGPS

Guys i think this should be stickied.

It already is.

c3sk · January 4th, 2015, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricochet

There's a huge difference between legal and eye safe. Both a butter-knife and a chainsaw are legal for use, but I wouldn't give my 3 year old the latter.

Correct. As a parent you are responsible for your child's safety. However that doesn't have anything really to do with this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexGPS

Guys i think this should be stickied. Its something a lot of people are interested including myself. Im not in any financial term to buy such a thing but it would be nice to have it standby for when i do.

Already done. This simply serves as a primer for the basic questions that get asked around a lot. Should help clear up a lot of confusion.

SuperHog · January 4th, 2015, 09:43

Video here from Green Mountain Rangers, they use a Insight PEQ15 Class 1 laser, he says eye safe for airsoft.

http://popularairsoft.com/news/gmr-p...on-systema-ptw

AlexGPS · January 4th, 2015, 11:25

Guys im pretty sure you could modify any of the chinese replica lasers to output .5mw instead of 5mw. A cheap laser diode from ebay that outputs .5mw could be replaced inside instead of the 5mw one it already comes with. It would be nice if ThunderCactus could modify such a thing with propper documentation, even go to the extent as to test it out in front of the person buying it.

c3sk · January 4th, 2015, 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Video here from Green Mountain Rangers, they use a Insight PEQ15 Class 1 laser, he says eye safe for airsoft.

http://popularairsoft.com/news/gmr-p...on-systema-ptw

AN/PEQ-15 Cannot be purchased lawfully. They were never sold legally to civilians, so if you come across one it is usually stolen US Military technology. That doesn't mean possession is necessarily illegal, as many owners of them will argue that in the US. Just the sale/transaction that took place to get it.

The ATPIAL-C is the civilian version of the PEQ-15 which just started selling last month. However it is very new, quite expensive, and is not yet sold in Canada.

(The device featured in that video is an AN/PEQ-15 with yellow stickers which read 30mW max power output)

ATPIAL-C has black stickers which state 5mW max power output.
Hope that helps!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexGPS

Guys im pretty sure you could modify any of the chinese replica lasers to output .5mw instead of 5mw. A cheap laser diode from ebay that outputs .5mw could be replaced inside instead of the 5mw one it already comes with. It would be nice if ThunderCactus could modify such a thing with propper documentation, even go to the extent as to test it out in front of the person buying it.

For sure, go for it! The risk would be between the person using that device and the players on the receiving end of it. I applaud the first individual willing to test their eyesight with a $100 dollar Airsoft laser and a cheap diode from ebay shoved inside of it.

Qlong · January 4th, 2015, 11:38

Lasers also will tend to give you away. If you can't afford a or source a laser, buy a NV compatible EOTech XPS, EPS series, or Aimpoint T1 etc. They can be found in retail stores.

Here is a video at TTAC demonstrating passive vs active NV sights.

Although you can't hipfire anymore, you sure can surprise the other team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEcSSRSrav0

Kokanee · January 4th, 2015, 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Video here from Green Mountain Rangers, they use a Insight PEQ15 Class 1 laser, he says eye safe for airsoft.

http://popularairsoft.com/news/gmr-p...on-systema-ptw

GMR need to stop shitposting and sort themselves out.

Excellent thread btw Chris.

AlexGPS · January 4th, 2015, 11:52

All im saying is with propper documentation from a reliable source it would be alright. If its documentated and the person is reliable then why not.

c3sk · January 4th, 2015, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexGPS

All im saying is with propper documentation from a reliable source it would be alright. If its documentated and the person is reliable then why not.

Not sure how many different ways to explain it. You're talking about another persons eyes. It is not up to you as the end user of the device

You: I have a laser with documentation I deem reliable, and the person who made it is reliable. I think this laser is alright to be used on you.

Me: I disagree, don't use that laser on me please.

You: But I said it's alright, gimmie ur eye.

Me: ....Staahhhppp.

So, if you already have to convince players that its cool for you to use a Class 1 certified laser from a big company like Laser Devices or L3 on them. How do you think "Hey guys, I made this in my basement from some stuff I got on ebay, don't worry super safe, I saw some stuff on the internet about it" is going to go over?

This video's lyrics are an excellent example. Also, catchy.

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January 3rd, 2015, 20:55	#1
c3sk (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: ก็็็็็็็็็็็็็	Lasers in airsoft for Dummies Since there have been a lot of threads bringing up the same old discussion over and over again, it is time to consolidate everything to a single thread to help distribute factual information about Lasers (Mainly IR lasers) in Canada, and in Airsoft. First and foremost, as per 2011 Health Canada Safety, which follows the US FDA guidelines for safe laser usage. Any laser above Class 3R has been deemed prohibited for sale under the Consumer Protection Act. More information here 1. What lasers are legal to use in Canada? Class 1 Class 1M Class 2 Class 2M Class 3R 2. Does this mean my Airsoft laser could land me in hot water? That depends on the classification and use. If you own a laser in the prohibited class (Over 3R), while owning the laser after 2011 may not be a punishable offense, use of the laser is still controlled. If you were to cause injury to an individual with the laser, you could be charged. 3. What about Military Lasers? AN/PEQ-15's, AN/PEQ-2's? As per the classification on the device, these are Class 3B laser units and are prohibited for sale. Many of these lasers are able to produce a Lower Class 1(Eye safe) beam, however, the classification is based off the maximum capability of the device. In this case, the highest power setting. 4. What legal lasers can generally be used at Airsoft Games in Canada? Class 1 lasers have been widely accepted at Canadian hosted Airsoft events, mainly in the Ontario region. This is due to the Class 1 rating being the safest rating a laser device can receive, where as no eye damage can occur under all conditions of normal use. Even if you were to look directly into the laser beam, no damage or injury would occur. 5. I want to make my own Class 1 Laser. You can! However other individuals may not want your home made laser used on them at games. Remember, it is their eyes at risk, not yours. 6. This is confusing, I blew all my money on Nightvision, and now I need a cheap affordable laser to go with it, but it has to be legit? What do!? There are many legal and civilian available lasers now available on the market which will suit your needs. Many, if not all of these lasers have been accepted at Airsoft games provided you have the proper paperwork prooving the legitimacy of your eye safe laser. Living List of legal civilian lasers accepted at games in Canada: Note: Be mindful regarding clones of these products. Knockoff G&P Dbal clone lasers are capable of producing output above Class 3R. This lands them in the prohibited category. (There may be other lasers not on this list, these are the most common) LDI DBAL-I² Class 1 IR Laser LDI CQBL-1 Class1 IR Laser LDI DBAL-PL Class 1 IR Laser LDI DBAL-D2 Class 1 IR Laser LDI OTAL/ITAL Class 1 IR Laser Wilcox RAPTAR Lite ES Class1 Infrared Laser LaserMax LMS UNI-IR Class 1 IR Laser Now available here Streamlight TLR-2 IRW Class 1 IR Laser Now available here If possible, I will be updating this list as well as adding Canadian sellers for these laser devices. Currently Canadian Retailer I Run Guns has been selling LDI Laser products. It is only a matter of time before more reputable companies start selling them. Last edited by c3sk; January 13th, 2015 at 03:29..

January 3rd, 2015, 21:33	#2
Stryker Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 'A' (eh!) land	Excellent post! __________________ MODT - tu fui ego eris

January 3rd, 2015, 23:47	#4
Ricochet How much sand CAN you fit in your vagina!? Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Delta, BC (Greater Vancouver)	There's a huge difference between legal and eye safe. Both a butter-knife and a chainsaw are legal for use, but I wouldn't give my 3 year old the latter. __________________ I have developed a new sport called Airhard. Pretty much the same as Airsoft, except you have to maintain an erection...

January 3rd, 2015, 23:52	#5
AlexGPS Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Scarorough Toronto	Guys i think this should be stickied. Its something a lot of people are interested including myself. Im not in any financial term to buy such a thing but it would be nice to have it standby for when i do.

January 3rd, 2015, 23:55	#6
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	Good post, should be referred to every time something about lasers comes up. I would also add in the time it takes to damage a cornea with a .5mW laser versus a 5mW laser. But to answer the questions asked on the last thread that was locked before I could reply: 1) This is not a Chinese laser, with a Chinese class 1 sticker, rated by a Chinese source. That would be extremely irresponsible and I'm pretty sure it would leave me open to some pretty costly lawsuits. It would be a modified Chinese laser, SERIALIZED, with a NORTH AMERICAN class 1 sticker, rated by a NORTH AMERICAN reputable source, with NORTH AMERICAN documentation, which has the particular serial number of the unit on it. It would be under no less scrutiny than a real DBAL I². And if I cannot get those EXACT requirements, then I simply won't go ahead with this. Simple as that. The comment of "You have gen3 nvd, and two ptws, but you can't afford a real class 1 laser?": Yes, I can absolutely afford to spend $1600 on a class 1 laser. But others cannot. I have gen3 night vision, I don't even NEED a class 1 laser since I can aim with my iron sights. But people with gen1 and gen2 can't. Therefore they'll use IR lasers. You think someone who paid $500 for their night vision is going to spend $1200-$1600 on a real class 1 laser? Significantly less likely than someone who spent $3500. So we ban anything but trusted class 1 lasers at major night games. Great, we've fixed the issue for everyone going to those big milsims. But people will still run them at their own fields, in other games, risking other people's eyes. However, those people who are picking up $160 G&P DBALs or $120 8mw IR lasers might not be opposed to spend a bit extra to make sure it's not going to blind anyone. Let me make it ABUNDANTLY clear that my goal is not to find a sneaky way to acquire a shadily tested class 1 laser for my own use to save a few dollars and put everyone's eyesight at risk. My goal is to find a way to supply people with adequately tested and marked and documented IR lasers at a reasonable price so they won't put THEIR friend's eyesight at risk. I'm not trying to save money here, I'm trying to help you accomplish YOUR goal, with a much broader demographic, in a way that would be no less accurate than the real deal. And with me behind the project, it's at least a name people can vouch for, as opposed to johnny nobody airsoft retailer who just wants to cash in on a niche market.

January 4th, 2015, 09:43	#9
SuperHog Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Toronto, Ontario	Video here from Green Mountain Rangers, they use a Insight PEQ15 Class 1 laser, he says eye safe for airsoft. http://popularairsoft.com/news/gmr-p...on-systema-ptw

January 4th, 2015, 11:25	#10
AlexGPS Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Scarorough Toronto	Guys im pretty sure you could modify any of the chinese replica lasers to output .5mw instead of 5mw. A cheap laser diode from ebay that outputs .5mw could be replaced inside instead of the 5mw one it already comes with. It would be nice if ThunderCactus could modify such a thing with propper documentation, even go to the extent as to test it out in front of the person buying it.

January 4th, 2015, 11:38	#12
Qlong Division Trader rating Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Scarborough, Ontario	Lasers also will tend to give you away. If you can't afford a or source a laser, buy a NV compatible EOTech XPS, EPS series, or Aimpoint T1 etc. They can be found in retail stores. Here is a video at TTAC demonstrating passive vs active NV sights. Although you can't hipfire anymore, you sure can surprise the other team https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEcSSRSrav0 __________________ Weee! Last edited by Qlong; January 4th, 2015 at 11:44..

January 4th, 2015, 11:52	#14
AlexGPS Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Scarorough Toronto	All im saying is with propper documentation from a reliable source it would be alright. If its documentated and the person is reliable then why not.

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