IR Lasers & DBAL's at games.

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by FlyGuy

For the lucky few of us PEQ-15 users out there...

Depending upon who's data sheet you read, the L3/Insight ATPIAL AN/PEQ-15's IR-lo setting is either 0.7 mW or 0.6 mW which means it would be considered Class 1, or on the very low end of Class 3a. I've seen it listed both ways on technical data sheets so it's that close. Either way however, the low-power lockout ensures a real-deal PEQ-15 IR laser remains in this regime at all times and is considered eye-safe under normal circumstances. (ie. Normal means avoiding prolonged continuous direct exposure...key words being "prolonged", "continuous" and "direct")

Illuminator is a Class 3a, Low Aim is Class 1
Class 1 is viewable under any circumstance with the naked eye, even magnified direct exposure.

[Wrath144]

So... I have an Element PEQ16A replica. It has an IR and visible laser function, are those eye safe?

[Derpystronk]

Originally Posted by Wrath144

So... I have an Element PEQ16A replica. It has an IR and visible laser function, are those eye safe?

Alright. As it looks like people are reading the thread yet not understanding it... I'll say it again: If it's not real or verifiable that it is eye safe... It's not.

If you have to ask, the answer is no.

[FlyGuy]

Originally Posted by Wrath144

So... I have an Element PEQ16 replica. It has an IR and visible laser function, are those eye safe?

NO. Unless it is stamped/certified with available documentation attesting to its conformance to current laser classification standards - which none of the HK ones do - then it's merely an unsafe toy. There's several reasons why real firearms laser emitters are so expensive, eye safety being one of them. IF your laser emitter is not a real steel class 1 or class 3a firearms variety, leave it at home.

nuff said.

'Fly

[Wrath144]

So the sticker on it that says <5mw is just for show?

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by Wrath144

So... I have an Element PEQ16 replica. It has an IR and visible laser function, are those eye safe?

Ultimate test! (DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS, SARCASM ALERT)
1. Set the laser up on a table and turn it on.
2. Sit down in front of the laser so that it's going into your eye. (Do this maybe for about an hour)
3. If you do not go blind, it is eye safe.

4. To check if you went blind, clasp one hand over your left eye, and focus on the dot in the picture below. Repeat with your right eye. If deformations/vanishing lines appear while focused on the dot in the middle you have damaged your retina.



5. If you can't see the picture, or anything for that matter, you are blind and have now verified that your laser device is too dangerous to be used at airsoft games. However know that through your testing you saved the eyes of hundreds of other players. You should be proud of that.





Or, just get a Class 1 eye safe laser that has regulated documentation supplied with it.

Then you will know for sure if the device you are using is actually safe to use.

[FlyGuy]

Originally Posted by c3sk

Illuminator is a Class 3a, Low Aim is Class 1
Class 1 is viewable under any circumstance with the naked eye, even magnified direct exposure.

TNVC lists the PEQ-15 IR-low as 0.6 mW / C3a but doesn't distinguish between the illuminator and the pointer...go figure. Insight wanted my contact info before sending tech data but I eventually found a Morovision PDF which does provide more detail and you are absolutely correct. IR-low laser is Class 1 and IR-low illuminator is Class 3a.

Eye-safe provided you have the lock-out engaged, which I do at all times.

L8R

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by Deltastone

I would say they wouldn't even offer it unless DoD / DHS / whatever is cool with it. As long as you don't really have a pretty prejudice-y last name or are on some sort of denied persons list I would expect you to clear the paperwork?

Yeah, it's still a risk... But if the US Government was going to deny every application why would a company even offer it?

Actually, Rampart does not guarantee anything whatsoever. The only thing they have commented on is that they tested this method with a customer once and it worked out for them. They are not sure what the approval process involves and what criteria is required for an approval. They are only offering it because there is significant demand from their customers.

Not only that, but it will take 6-12 weeks for the paperwork to be processed if successful. I'm not sure I would be too confident in putting down a $300 fee and not know whether or not I'll get anything in return.

The whole process seems really risky, expensive, and timely. Unfortunately, it's starting to look like the only method available at the moment.

[c3sk]

I never trust TNVC's posted data as it varies from source to source. The best information is actually provided in the Insight ATPIAL manual/safety information card. This card lists the Ocular Hazard levels dependent on various primary factors such as:

1. Range to the devices beam
2. magnification
3. Output power

Which I am always happy to see that Class 1's fall under zero ocular hazard.

[FlyGuy]

Originally Posted by Wrath144

So the sticker on it that says <5mw is just for show?

YES. So are all the other "realistic looking" trademarks and lettering on airsoft "toys" coming out of HK. That's why we love them so much because they look the part right?

Barring any unfortunate and often hysterical screw-ups in English translation, these so-called labels are realistic enough forgeries to fool pretty much everyone but they're not worth the sticky paper they're printed on. If an HK-based manufacturer actually had to go through the detailed process required to certify the laser to US-FDA specifications (Health Canada uses same criteria) as do the real deal manufacturers, they wouldn't be nearly as cheap as they are now for you to buy off the internet or elsewhere.

As said earlier by many including me, if you have to ask - origin = Asia - then it's not safe and should not be permitted for airsoft, particularly true for green and IR lasers.

Hope that's enough to answer your questions?


'Fly

[FlyGuy]

Originally Posted by c3sk

I never trust TNVC's posted data as it varies from source to source. The best information is actually provided in the Insight ATPIAL manual/safety information card. This card lists the Ocular Hazard levels dependent on various primary factors such as:

1. Range to the devices beam
2. magnification
3. Output power

Which I am always happy to see that Class 1's fall under zero ocular hazard.

Mind shooting me a photocopy of said card or manual? Mine didn't arrive with one.

[Wrath144]

Thanks for the information. I know a guy who knows some guys, so I'll see what I can do to get it tested.

[faithless]

Beamshot NightStalker and Lasermax has some class 1 IR stuffs. With paperwork/documentation, are they good to bring to game?

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by faithless

Beamshot NightStalker and Lasermax has some class 1 IR stuffs. With paperwork/documentation, are they good to bring to game?

The LaserMax UNI-IR is weird.

It is advertised everywhere as a Class 1 IR laser, but the specifications everywhere notes that it's a 5mW 653nm (visible red) laser for some reason. I'm sure its just a case of broken telephone - but it should be fine to game (as long as it's actually Class 1).

[Derpystronk]

Originally Posted by mmmken

Actually, Rampart does not guarantee anything whatsoever. The only thing they have commented on is that they tested this method with a customer once and it worked out for them. They are not sure what the approval process involves and what criteria is required for an approval. They are only offering it because there is significant demand from their customers.

Never said there was a guarantee. I just said I seriously doubt a reputable retailer would offer a product that has a 100% failure rate and at significant cost.

A civilian has been approved to own a Class 1 laser. That means the option is on the table. Are you on some sort of No Fly list? Is your name bin Laden? Did you say Blackbriar over the telephone? Probably not a good idea to even try.