Tsd l96 Sniper rifle?

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by QUATTROISKING

:O so why not explain to me how a cheaper gun shooting 450fps with a properly tuned hop up (30$) and a 6.03. Tightbore(25$) will not have the same distance as a very expensive gun???
Does a 30$ cilinder head put extra pixxy dust on the 6mm bb?

And do I play airsoft? No... I used to play with Lego and silly putty, I do milsim.

Because you don't understand the physics.
There's more to it than just FPS, BB weight and hop rubber. Having constant air pressure and laminar flow behind the BB are critical to having good accuracy.

If you took and M4 with a good barrel and hop rubber and tested it with 2 different mechboxes, one fully upgraded and tuned, and one cheap chinese clone, both shooting 400fps, you'd note the tuned one has better and more consistent performance.

Why do you think people spend $2500 on PTW's?? It's because the internals are more precise, and higher quality. That's how they get their performance.
By your thinking, I could spend $450 on a KA M4 and have it shoot as well as a finely tuned $1300 AEG or $2500 PTW

Is it possible to achieve great performance with a stock rifle, new barrel & hop? Yes. Yes it is.
Does it happen often? Absolutely not.
Once you achieve all requirements to make a good shot, they're met. And upgrading the gun simply won't make a difference.
At that point upgrading is about reliability more than performance.

At one point the average range of an AEG here was 80ft, and that was good for us. We just has no idea it was physically possible to send a BB out to 240+ft.
Now that we understand the physics behind it, the average range is around 180ft, with some guns shooting further still

[pusangani]

hehehe I love how he snuck in tightbore to bolster his argument

[redzaku]

Originally Posted by pusangani

hehehe I love how he snuck in tightbore to bolster his argument

i pretty much pointed that out, he puts out his upgraded rifle while the OP have asked for "is this TSD rifle good without upgrades?" or along the lines of the same

[QUATTROISKING]

Someone stated above that a tsd rifle wouldn't last even a game before breaking and that its imitation garbadge...... I stated that with a new inner barrel and hop up the gun will shoot as far as a very expensive rifle shooting the same fps.
And I'm not wrong. Sure mabe with you're 700$ rifle the consistency of shot after shot will be slightly improved but a bb traveling at the same fps will shoot just as far.

[QUATTROISKING]

Just because you bought a BMW doesn't mean it's faster than a Pontiac.

[redzaku]

Originally Posted by QUATTROISKING

Just because you bought a BMW doesn't mean it's faster than a Pontiac.

yeah a pontiac with a nos system built in, you haven't seen the new BMW, have you? a better analogy is when i put a ferrari engine in a honda civic, it will magically turn into a ferrari... not even
the logic is that you can't change the physical make up of certain item by placing a new and better part to replace the part inside, it is still the same as to before you have modified it
what quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, you are most likely looking a duck

[Strelok]

Quattro, Have you used a properly upgraded BA sniper rifle before? Its hard to argue a point when it appears you haven't used much beyond what you've owned.

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by QUATTROISKING

And I'm not wrong. Sure mabe with you're 700$ rifle the consistency of shot after shot will be slightly improved but a bb traveling at the same fps will shoot just as far.

No, it won't necessarily travel as far.
Because many of us have seen 360fps guns out range 470fps guns.
100fps is not, by any means, a small difference.
And a hop-modded PTW will always have better accuracy than a fully upgraded AEG. That specifically has to do with how the air nozzle functions.

I've personally seen a stock (reshimmed) G&P M16A3 go through at least 300,000 rounds of heavy abuse without failing internally. But I don't go telling people to buy G&P because it CAN last tens of thousands of rounds stock. On average, G&P's typically don't last more than a game if they're not shimmed out of the box, and the pistons tend to fail in less than a season.
I've seen upgraded G&P's that shot like lasers, and upgraded G&Ps that have horrible demon problems and never shoot right.
And particularly when it comes to sniper rifles, there's a lot of people in the past who have tried to upgrade inexpensive clone rifles, and could just never produce the performance of the brand name rifles because of tolerance problems in the main components.

So just because YOUR tsd shoots really good, doesn't mean EVERY tsd is going to shoot good. And the collective experience of the members here state that TSD in general is not very good.
So is it possible for a $200 rifle, with a $20 hop rubber and $100 barrel to shoot as good as a $900 upgraded marui VSR-10? Yes
But the chance you take with a cheaper rifle is that it will be a demon gun that can never reach that kind of performance.
(I recall having this exact same argument with a dozen noobs when chinasoft AEG's hit the market lol)

It also seems that your argument is based on your one rifle. How many clone guns have you upgraded to shoot great? And what is your basis of comparison to say they are shooting great?
Don't feel that I'm attacking your credibility, my interest is to teach & inform, not to point and laugh.

Like I said, back in the day the average range here was like 80ft. So "great range" to us 6 years ago was only 120ft lol

[Jagd]

It seems also that clones VSR-10 are worse then clone type/L96 like TSD and Well in terms of performance after upgrades, I know quite a lot of people with upgraded Well L96 that have nothing to envy to a Maruzen.

The main reason for me in going with a clone rifle was that, even with a genuine Maruzen Type 96, I would have upgraded all the internals anyways.

My Tsd/Well L96 cost me 125$ brand new, ordered from Evike. All the upgrades costed me 300$. So final price was with shipping and all, around 480$. At that price I would have had only a stock Maruzen.

To me it made no sense at all in having spent 480$ in a stock Maruzen and paying another 300$ for the upgrdades. When I knew that the only difference was the body (albeit of better quality that of the Well, but not enough to justify the 330$ price increase.) Anyway in the end, the only thing left from the clone would have been the bolt handle, and the cylinder. The Maruzen stock parts regrding those 2 things are not better than a clone one.

I had also another friend who had a maruzen with some upgrades (not fully upgraded), raising it's cost of acquisition to 600$. It was not even comparable in terms of reliability, range and accuracy to my TSD L96 fully upgraded for $480.

It seems also that there is people that I have met or read on this forum, that they are just pissed. They have spent 850$ on a rifle that is not shooting better than a fully upgraded clone (talking about L96 clones here I have no experience with VSR-10 clones) and would have costed them a fraction of the price. They keep on bashing that Well L96 are utter garbage bla bla bla, that they have bought the real deal and that is the way to go bla bla bla. I was seeing alot of that back 3 years ago on this forum...

You know what...I told myself screw them...I am replacing everything anyway, I would be dumb to pay for the real deal, if I am not keeping any original internal parts. Never regretted my decision and if my L96 break one day I am gonna buy another Well L96 and transfer all the upgraded parts in the new one. But so far that sniper is a killing machine!

if you go clone, you upgrade everything internally or you go home. There is no in between, clones in their stock form are simply a waste of money.

[Ricochet]

Distance and FPS are relatively easy to attain out of a 6mm BB. Hell, I'll bet I can out shoot a BA with a sling shot. Can you get lucky and attain the same accuracy out of a complete piece of shit like any TSD gun? Yes you can. Will this anomaly last? No, not likely. Quality, engineering, functionality, reliability etc, always play a part when seriously looking into buying an airsoft platform. Are you playing three times a year with your friends and their cheap, clear-soft, craptacular guns? Then a TSD sniper might be worth your time, but you'll like end up buying a cheap, clear-soft gun for that added reliability and fun factor. Are you wanting to play competitively against players who spend their money on precision instruments, training platforms, and all the high quality upgrades? Then you'll need to follow suit as well.

I've seen the following in person; that one off crappy Chinese clone preforming uncharacteristically well, but will eventually explode because it's cheap crap. I've also seen the clone that was so upgraded that there was almost nothing clone left on it. Sadly either gun never truly reaches the potential of the real thing, and people should never suggest going down this path just so they feel like they are the only idiots who did, and either got lucky, or more likely are lying and/or completely oblivious to what their guns can actually do.

There is a good path for you despite all this. The Classic Army M24 is a decent substitute to the Marui VSR or Maruzen APS-II platforms, and can be found in the $300.00-ish range (give or take) within Canada. However it is still a sniper platform, and will take extra money to properlly upgrade, maintain, and tune to keep it field worthy, often in the hundreds of dollars or more. If you get age verified, we'll even tell you where to get one, and there is likely a thread on how to upgrade it properlly.

Just don't end up one of those guys with a TSD and a tight-bore, aiming your gun into the air at a 45•, and claiming it shoots as far as a properly tuned Marui, when the real thing can pick off coins at distance.


By the way, even with a high end and properly upgraded sniper rifle 99.9% of new players find it boring and extremely frusterating, and end up selling their sniper for a loss. About 40% of those are so turned off after, they end up quitting airsoft all together.

[sammynac99]

I'd wanna see this. Get one guy to grab his PDW and shoot a target 5 times 100YDs away and then get a cheap springer with some ups and do the same.

If the springer or a lower quality AEG can hit the target with near same accuracy as the PDW, then whatever. I know about all this mechanical stuff with tolerances and machining and quality of the parts etc.

But when it comes down to it performance is what matters, if Quattro can hit a target with the same accuracy after spending 300 compared to a guy using a 1500$ plus upgraded AEG why not! This is the consumers market, some guy from china makes me something at half price from what I would normally pay I owe it to my bank account to at least look into it.

That's what people do, I know the whole but cheap buy twice stuff, but I've bought everything I have pretty cheap, and I have yet to buy twice, because I do my research and get lucky not to get a lemon!!!

[Jagd]

I've seen the following in person; that one off crappy Chinese clone preforming uncharacteristically well, but will eventually explode because it's cheap crap. I've also seen the clone that was so upgraded that there was almost nothing clone left on it. Sadly either gun never truly reaches the potential of the real thing, and people should never suggest going down this path just so they feel like they are the only idiots who did, and either got lucky, or more likely are lying and/or completely oblivious to what their guns can actually do.

Exactly the kind of answer that I used to see...This was obviously aimed at what I wrote, exactly the kind of reply that I was talking about and you fell right in the stereotype, proning that only original gun are good and clones even upgraded are utter garbage.

So from what you say, clones are crap and no matter what, it will explode one day and it is only good for those who play 3 times in a year. Well...got some news for you, my TSD I have it since more than 3 years going on 4 and I have played a good 30 games in all kind of weather conditions with it, still going strong and we are far from 3 games a year.

I am not someone who's particularly found on clones. Actually the only clones I have are my tsd and my tri shot shottie (marui clone) the rest are Marui pistols, so I am far from the guy who only buy cheap stuff.

What baffles me, is that you are mentionning that even if you replace everything in a clone by upgrading it with parts like PDI, Laylax, Modify and what not, it is impossible that you get the same accuracy and range as the real deal?

So the outershell of your original Maruzen Type 96 will help you get a better gun and a Well L96 will never be able to achieve the same results because of it's outer shell and bolt handle and cylinder?

For me I prefer having the 300-400$ difference in my bank account than in an original rifle that has the same exact upgrade parts that I have in my clone.

Lastly, I am not oblivious to what my rifle can do, I perfectly know what it can do and I compare it to original Marui and Maruzen rifle of other fellow airsoft player. And for the liar part, well post in the Quebec team section and ask what my rifle can do, if I am lying or not and if I have to aim at 45 degree to outrange a Marui rifle. Go ahead you'll see!

If you want to pay the big bucks and you have the budget or your prority in life allows you to do it go ahead, it is just not true that only original rifle will be able to perform well, even when you have upgraded almost everything in your clone a thing that you will do anyway on the original rifle. For me it gives me the same and even better results than with an original rifle at the fraction of the cost. I am sure if it works for me it can work for other airsoft player and I know that it does the job for other players too.

Let people choose simple as that!

[Aquamarine]

Originally Posted by QUATTROISKING

And do I play airsoft? No... ..... I do milsim.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiigggghhhhttttttttt

Feel free to waggle your e-weenis around while trying to differentiate 'airsoft' from 'milsim'...

[Juke16]

Try doing this with a clone rifle.
THE EXTREME SHOOTER 2012 第二競æÅ*€"Through The Hole" - YouTube

[-[Lt.Nixon]-]

Whatever guys, my stock loading-rod with a new hop-up and TB will out-perform your PTWs any day.