Dr StrangeBB

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Or how I learned to stop hating cheaters and embrace the Game.

Quite frequently over Beer and Smokes in the Operators Lounge at TTAC3 post Friday Firefight, the conversation turns to "calling hits"

It is rare... but occasionally we do have incidents of "invulerability" at TTAC3, Typically it is a newer player.. or someone who is overkitted. Like the one fellow who showed up wearing a life jacket.. as body armour..
He was like the freaking Terminator... anyway I digress

I enforce a strict "no calling other players Hits" rule,I hate to hear people shouting across the floor, "What about that hit you fucker!!" almost as much as I hate hearing the under the breath muttering about "so and so is a cheater"

The rule is... If you think you hit someone.. but they don't react.. you missed. This goes along with the "if you think you were hit.. then you were" rules... the two together.. produce some good results and we don't have many issues.

Anyway... Cheaters... What is a Cheater..

Pathology of a Cheater

At the most basic recognized level it is a person who knowingly does not acknowledge being hit.. and shoots others ( typically the one who shot them) after ignoring a hit. These people can really get the blood up... shouting and bad feelings are their stock in trade... they cultivate rightious indignation..they are the scourge of fair play... and thankfully they are quite rare.

The stress of dealing with cheaters

is based in the sense of fair play.. and competition that is the single most artificial aspect of the game of airsoft.. This ain't tag with guns...Though lots of people behave like it is.

The use of Airsoft guns in Tactical or military simulation is to enhance the experiance of "realism" in simulations...

I ask you .. what could be more realistic than an opponent that does not behave as expected when shot? An Opponent that fights back and does not quit until you completely dominate them and without doubt neutralize them with effective fire? An opponent that could be wearing many sorts of possible protection that could make them resistant to "incidental" hits and can only be taken out by mutiple strikes at center of body mass..

Would not such an opponent be worthy? Challenging.. demanding?

I say the path to happyness in airsoft play is not in eradicating cheaters ( though that would be a nice ... if impossible goal ) but in accepting that cheaters do not in fact exist.. there are no cheaters.. just hard targets.. there are no "invunerable" players.. just armoured combatants.

Dealling with "hard targets" and "armoured" combatants demands the best out of YOU , that you fire from cover, that you dominate with effective fire, that you concentrate the fire of many on a few.. in short dealing with such adversity demands that you play better... at higher skill with greater cunning and rise to the challenge.

And in the end when you walk off after having poured fire onto an opponenet who then turned and shot you... Do you still not leave knowing you won that engagement? That had the bullets been real.. it would be you walking away.. and him left on the field?
For the diciplined player.. who wants to get better.. this alone should be enough. If the bullets were real... there would be no question..

If there is one thing that is true... Combat is not about "fair play" it is about dominating your opponent..With individual skill at arms and with movement, formations and effective fire.. If the bullets were real.. no one would expose themselves to fire.. hoping the other guy will go down first.

This is also why I follow a fire for effect rule.. You shoot.. and keep on shooting till the other guy calls hit..Never pop 2 at him and then hope he takes it this is a certain path to hard feelings and dissatisfaction with the game.

Every time you get shot by anyone.. it is because you did something wrong.. or you put yourself in a situation where getting shot was the logical outcome.( This is still doing something wrong but sometimes it happens ) It is not because " the other guy Cheated" Remember.. there are no cheaters... just hard targets.. and armoured opponents..Who in the end Challenge you to be a better player.

[Danke]

Well said.

[diamond_SEA]

i often find myself calling myself hit out at XT even though i dont know for sure if ive been hit out. its called good sportsmanship.

as they say, not calling your hit out, often involves being shot more.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

This is also why I follow a fire for effect rule.. You shoot.. and keep on shooting till the other guy calls hit..Never pop 2 at him and then hope he takes it this is a certain path to hard feelings and dissatisfaction with the game.

Every time you get shot by anyone.. it is because you did something wrong.. or you put yourself in a situation where getting shot was the logical outcome.( This is still doing something wrong but sometimes it happens ) It is not because " the other guy Cheated" Remember.. there are no cheaters... just hard targets.. and armoured opponents..Who in the end Challenge you to be a better player.

In the past when I did the "fire for effect" rule I was deemed as a harsh person by some members of this forum who no longer plays, At first i always aim for the biggest mass ( the body ) but after a while as the method of the game is played and the outfit or kit we wore evolved I have switch from body shots to open area shots (head, neck, exposed skin area etc.) and i find this more effective than doing short burst or multiple shots where the intended target just simply walk away to another hiding spot, I find that a well tuned scope or red dot sight is quite helpful in the hide and shoot situation.

I see your point of taking cheaters as a challenge and a way to improve your tactics but majority of the times our emotions get the better of us and quite often we seek a way of retribution towards such players instead of taking the high road, or maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy and just want to play with out all the bitching and moaning.

[zone 69]

I heard the word cheater at our games aswell. I just tell them not to worry about it so much and at least there here playing.

And we all take hit,s without knowing it sometimes.

When it comes right down to it the goal is to have fun is it not.

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

This is also why I follow a fire for effect rule.. You shoot.. and keep on shooting till the other guy calls hit..Never pop 2 at him and then hope he takes it this is a certain path to hard feelings and dissatisfaction with the game.

Heh, I kind of follow this idea myself. If he didn't call hit, he obviously did not feel it or is just not calling hit. Therefore, you shoot him more, and if he still doesn't call hit, you keep shooting till he does. I don't think in the real world you pop off two shots and then look and see if the person is down. You shoot that fucker until he's down, or it'll be your ass down next.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by diamond_SEA

i often find myself calling myself hit out at XT even though i dont know for sure if ive been hit out. its called good sportsmanship.

as they say, not calling your hit out, often involves being shot more.

try shooting at someone helmet emptying 3 locaps worth of ammo and have him just walk out and shoot you and claiming that you only hit his helmet not body, on top of that he shot me from 4 feet away with his sniper rifle and left me with a purple pimple on my lip ( that was my last game that i played at Flag raiders in 2003 organized by a fellow ASC member) unfortunately not every one here play like you.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by zone 69

I heard the word cheater at our games aswell. I just tell them not to worry about it so much and at least there here playing.

And we all take hit,s without knowing it sometimes.

When it comes right down to it the goal is to have fun is it not.

the game is all about fun, but what is fun when everytime you go out there is a guy dressed like he is in the seal and act like he can dodge bb's like he is in teh matrix.

[zone 69]

Originally Posted by wildcard

the game is all about fun, but what is fun when everytime you go out there is a guy dressed like he is in the seal and act like he can dodge bb's like he is in teh matrix.

I gess were lucky here in k-town we don,t have players no where,s near that bad here. Just a few young players that get fedup with getting killed all the time.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Heh, I kind of follow this idea myself. If he didn't call hit, he obviously did not feel it or is just not calling hit. Therefore, you shoot him more, and if he still doesn't call hit, you keep shooting till he does. I don't think in the real world you pop off two shots and then look and see if the person is down. You shoot that fucker until he's down, or it'll be your ass down next.

this was done long ago it end up with two team AMC and Hot Shot gearing team members with 10 - 12 hicaps each and played with AEG powered with a minimum of m140 or m150 springs. the whole so called power era began with one of the AMC players playing terminator against Hot Shot and some STAT members and it just snowballed from there.

[Syn]

Originally Posted by wildcard

try shooting at someone helmet emptying 3 locaps worth of ammo and have him just walk out and shoot you and claiming that you only hit his helmet not body, on top of that he shot me from 4 feet away with his sniper rifle and left me with a purple pimple on my lip ( that was my last game that i played at Flag raiders in 2003 organized by a fellow ASC member) unfortunately not every one here play like you.

WTH Thats unpossible ! How did you not beat him to a pulp?

Sure a guy with adrenalin pumping and tac vest on while running might get clipped by a bb and not feel it (seen it), but a habitual cheater will be told if hes a friend. We keep each other honest.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Syn

WTH Thats unpossible ! How did you not beat him to a pulp?

Sure a guy with adrenalin pumping and tac vest on while running might get clipped by a bb and not feel it (seen it), but a habitual cheater will be told if hes a friend. We keep each other honest.

I didn't beat him to a pulp because i got Gump, Poncho, Stu and one of Joe's referee on top of me and this is after I threw my W/A sigma at his head (ala Poncho style) then the next thing you know i got an old fart convention happening on top of me.

[Ronan]

Hit my finger or all around me i always call the hit.

One thing i don't like tho, people shooting high up in the tree's so that the bb's hit people on their way down... doubt real bullet will do that but heh.

[sdsbwc]

i think the "shoot for effect" idea is good, but at the same time its unfortunate it has to come to that. and yes, it is true that these "harder targets" serve as better training, but it becomes really frustrating when these "harder targets" become impossible targets.

i for one play for the training aspect of it all, the fun is an awesome bonus. but these harder targets completely take away the fun, and in turn take away any motivation to continue participating in the "training". i really dont consider shooting a guy a good 10-20 times without result "training". especially when its your training that youve recieved (eg. minimal exposure) that makes this person think its just "ricochets" cause he cant see you.
For me personally, i really dont want to shoot someone in the head, esp. at a place like ttac when engagements are much closer than outdoors, esp. when some people dont wear full face protection.

well anyways its late, im tired, enough whining, im startin to feel like colin :P

i guess at the end of the day, this is just the unfortunate reality of playing an honour based game, when some people simply have no honour.

[zone 69]

If i know iv bin hit i always call it aswell. I hate to lie it takes away the fun of the game for me.