KAC Stoner 96/Classic Army Knights LMG

[Spike]

GET #REKT, ARES!


Overview

So I've been waiting for this gun to come out literally for years. After hearing horror stories about the Ares version, I decided not to fork out for one of theirs. Even if the CA was gonna be junk, I figured I'd just make it work.

You get potato tablet pics again because I don't have a proper camera.



The gun weighs approximately 10lbs, so it's heavier than you'd expect, but a hell of a lot more maneuverable then say, a full sized m249.

Stock FPS is approximately 400, so it's good to go for most Canadian fields. However, it's a CA, so don't expect the stock guts to last when subjected to LMG style fire.

The stock rate of fire is sad with an 11.1 lipo and absolutely abysmal with a 7.4. It makes me and baby Eugene very sad.

It comes with a fixed (but removable with a screw) front sight and a RIS mounted rear sight. If you leave the rear sight on and want to run an optic, either run it on the front shroud RIS, or use a tiny optic. I put a 551 in front of the folding rear sight and it blocked the feed tray from opening.

The stock is collapsible, and is the most wobbly part of the gun. Nothing too crazy. I'm going to see if the buffer tube adapter for the Ares version will fit on this guy because I put crane stocks on everything that I own.

The included rail covers are nice, and the vert grip is of OK quality. The outer barrel is very solid for being a free float.

The magazine uses a similar mounting hardware to the M249 series to attach itself to the body. The included magazine is almost identical to the nutsack type 100 round M249 magazines. Other mags seat, but are wobbly. Some shimming with some tape should fix that.

CA KAC mag vs MAG 100R style 249 mag


The actual feed tube sits differently. At the end of the feed spring, there is a metal tube with a ridge in it. This ridge hooks onto a small peg in the receiver, and the whole thing is held in place by a spring loaded plate. Quite solid, actually. If you could get your hands on more of the metal tubes for the feed springs, it looks like it would be pretty easy to convert your already existent M249 mags to work with this guy (AKA the 5000 round boxes)



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Disassembly

1) Remove the outer barrel by depressing the big button on top of the receiver and sliding the outer out.

2) Remove the stock by unscrewing the bolt on the bottom of the stock, then depress the lever on the side of the receiver to slide off the stock plate.



3)Underneath the gun, remove the screw located on the box mag mounting bracket, then the whole bracket will slide out of the gun



4) Depress the other tab on the back of the receiver, and the upper and lower should slide apart. They are held together by a tongue and groove system. NOTE: THE RECEIVER MAY BE QUITE HARD TO SEPARATE, USE CAUTION



5) Remove the pistol grip as you would any normal AR. Note that both wires run out the FRONT of the pistol grip and the motor is installed backwards.

6) Remove these two body pins, same as you'd find on an AR



7) Depress the trigger (safety off) and slide the gearbox out. Easy!

Wiring Shenanigans

Wiring from the gearbox itself is standard wet noodle 16AWG wire. But, after the fuse box, there is a second tamiya connector and the wires switch over to 18AWG little b*tch wire. That resistance probably has something to do with the horrible rate of fire.



The cutout part of the receiver that held the fuse box looks like it'd be great to hold a small-medium fet like a nano ASR. I will be doing this in the future as the stock trigger switch is a small, non standard 5A switch and I'm terrified that I'm gonna fry it.



The wires are run out the front of the gearbox and sped a bit of time on the outside of it to get around the anti reversal latch.

Wiring:


Gearbox and guts

The gearbox is a proprietary design, but it looks like CA plans on using it for at least one other gun in the future. The back of where the bevel gear sits has a circular cutout for a motor shaft as well as two wire guides, though no motor cage mounting area. The gearbox is a beast, though the machining and finish are quite rough. It looks like a JG gearbox to me.



It features a "quick" change spring guide, though you have to disassembly 3/4 of the gun to get to it. Depress the spring guide, knock the pin out, and out comes your spring.



The motor is notoriously weak, I believe it's a sportline motor due to the shiny blue shaft that's on it.



Standard steel gears, 8mm bearings, all V2/V3 parts. Shimming was ok, too many shims on the spur gear, and the stock AoE is crap.

The compression bits are a bore up kit! Regular parts will not be compatible!. However, the stock compression parts gave me a 100% air seal which made be happy. The cylinder head is a double O ring and the piston head is aluminum. Note: be careful when removing the piston head. They use a lot of glue/loctite to keep it attached to the stock piston . The cylinder is a tad shorter than normal so you'll have to modify any aftermarket cylinders that you want to install.

Note that HUGE AMOUNT OF SPACE AROUND THE TRIGGER. Why did they not go with a standard size m249 button switch? Why do we have this piddly little thing instead?

Nozzle length is just under 19mm and has an O ring.



The tappet plate was warped out of the box. Aftermarket plates will need to be shaved before they'll fit in the gearbox. I tried a modify and an SHS tappet plate, both would not move freely when the gearbox was screwed closed.



I tried several different pistol grips, none of which seemed to fit the gun nicely. Here's what a grip alignment checker tool looks like in an Element A1 grip.



I cannot get the thing to stop whining. After about 10 hours of work on it, it won't get to a quiet enough level that I'm happy with it. I have a feeling something in the gun is misaligned, and/or I got a lemon. I could not get Siegetek gears to work in it at all after several attempts. I will try some SHS 13:1s after this weekend.


Overall, it's pretty similar to the M249. You'll run into the same annoyances with getting compression between a gearbox and free floating barrel as you would with a 249, and will run into the same box mag feed spring jamming issues.

Despite my criticisms, I am still happy with it. It's going to be one of those projects that takes a lot of TLC to get working properly, but when I finally get everything right on it, it will probably be my primary (RIP G&P Stoner 63). I've had this thing apart about 7 times so far, so if anyone has any specific questions, feel free to post or message me.

[ThunderCactus]

Still uses a microswitch? Really?
Epicfail. For shame CA.

[Stealth]

I shall update with my findings this weekend...maybe.

I can already think of a bunch of things that have to come out of this gun immediately. ie: dat wiring

In the meantime, hit me up with some dummy rounds if you can find some plox.

[Mitsauce]

How wide is the gas tube?

Looking at buffer tube lipos for this gun.

Thanks

[AngelusNex]

the stock mechanism is internal in the 'buffer' tube AND the gas tube is large enough for lipos AND longer then a buffer tube so why bother trying to run a buffer tube lipo?

[Mitsauce]

Originally Posted by AngelusNex

the stock mechanism is internal in the 'buffer' tube AND the gas tube is large enough for lipos AND longer then a buffer tube so why bother trying to run a buffer tube lipo?

I'm looking at this review here:
http://www.team-black-sheep.com/the-...mg-from-zshot/

It says they ran a Echo 1 11.1 buffer tube lipo in the gas tube and it was 20 mm wide.

The amperage from that battery isn't satisfactory to me and thus, I am looking at this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
Where it is 1 mm wider, can give me 30 amps, and it can make a difference, which is why I ask.

[Wilkie]

Thanks for the review, Spike. Unfortunate, but maybe the next batch will lack some of these downfalls.

I've nowhere near the technical expertise you do, so I think I'll think with my 249 for now, which is already tinkered with.

[brock0]

Gamed my LMG for the first time yesterday - stock other than a total rewiring job and Deans conversion.

It's an enjoyable gun to play with, blew through just over 5000 bbs during a 5 hour outdoor skirmish. One 1300mah 7.4v lipo lasted the entire game, no problem there. ROF was by no means high, but good enough for me. I wouldn't want it any higher - that 1200 round box mag goes fast while suppressing.

Speaking of the box mag, as was mentioned the loading door will not stay shut so I used some electrical tape to keep it shut, which made reloading a pain in the ass. I was impressed with the auto-wind feature and how quiet the box mag is in general. I was worried about lots of bb rattle or a loud whine, but had no issues with either.

Range was solid, accuracy only so-so. A hop upgrade is next on the list. I did not experience any jams or misfeeds using .28 elite force bio bbs.

Having only played with M4 aegs previously, it was a nice change of pace. It's light for an LMG and no issues carrying it around with no sling all day, but I'm feeling it in my arms and shoulders today for sure.

Overall quite pleased with it.

[Spike]

I will note from my day of gaming with mine, my box mag jammed pretty soon into the day with madbull 0.28g styrene BBs. I have parts en route for the thing, I will update my internal upgrade and rear wiring adventures when I get it done.

[Stealth]

Originally Posted by Mitsauce

I'm looking at this review here:
http://www.team-black-sheep.com/the-...mg-from-zshot/

It says they ran a Echo 1 11.1 buffer tube lipo in the gas tube and it was 20 mm wide.

The amperage from that battery isn't satisfactory to me and thus, I am looking at this one:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
Where it is 1 mm wider, can give me 30 amps, and it can make a difference, which is why I ask.

Wouldn't matter as I highly doubt the mechbox/motor combo needs 30 amps.

Spike - where did it jam? inside the box mag or at the feed tube?

[AngelusNex]

After putting over 5000 rounds through mine in play I did have some jamming issues in my feed tube, leaving it on auto wind and giving the feed tube a light pull whenever it jammed solved the issue every time. Had one jam in the barrel/hopup but that had more to do with the couple week old bio bbs then anything else and was simply fixed in game thanks to the quick change barrel.

Also going to point out that many members of my team are very impressed with the stock performance, size and weight of the stoner to the point where many of them are going to get one.

[XON50]

I can't seem to find one of these anywhere. All Ares LMG. If anyone can PM me where they got theirs, thank you thank you thank you.

[Specter_CAC]

Is the nozzle the same size as the 249 ones? I may buy one to drop a polarstar F1 in when I inevitably get one.

[squishall]

So I am a little confused. Many people have slammed the Ares Stoner because of feed problems, weak internals, etc.. The same people say the CA is better. Then the same people say the CA Stoner has feed problems, weak internals, etc. Hmmmm.

Just say'in

[Spike]

Yeah, neither of them are very good.

I am probably going to SMP mine.

Myself and another tech have both spent quite a bit of time trying to make the damn thing not sound like a dying cat while being fired, no dice. Judging from the shoddy gearbox casting, I'm going to assume that this is the fault here.