Squad integrity ingame?

[ripanu1]

Good Read.... Cheers

[Metalsynth]

The major issue is the respawn and return.

If you take that out of the equation, you get a cohesive squad by default.

So how can you make that squad respawn without screwing up game dynamics?

We made system for those really big fields where respawn is too far away.

Remaining squad members have to relocate to a proper clearing to simulate a helicopter drop off.

The dead just follow along from further away in a non-obstructive way.

Once the LZ is held after X time, the dead come back into play as simulated reinforcements with the squad.

If the squad is wiped out, it has to go back to the original respawn area.

You cannot respawn in another squad so squad integrity is assured.

The obvious problem to this is that respawn times can vary but default mesure is the original respawn so in the worst case, there is always the default respawn and time could be included in the time that the player walks to the default respawn to ensure the ''I hate waiting'' syndrome.

As far as game systems that enforce squad cohesion, I think this is a good alternative.

[Ricochet]

Squad is also a "small time" idea. SWATT13, Freelancer and our team does have a command structure, but anyone can lead if necessary. If someone gets shot out, they have a responsibility to return to, or radio check in with their group to support. Another thing to think about if your at a milsim, is that there is usually a few people in charge of the whole team. My squad might be hitting an objective, but it's because that's where we were needed. If all squads don't coordinate, that's where you can run into problems as well.

[Metalsynth]

I dont think most understand the idea of Long_bong.

He is looking for a system that will indirectly influence the players to stay together.

What you're saying in a way is ; ''This problem exists but I'm not willing to give it credit as a real problem because it's lack of maturity from the players''

If you as a game organiser can tweak things enough to make it seemless and actually make people act the way you need them to without having to cram 3 tons of ''holier than thou'' of proper conduct lectures, would you do it?

In a way, I think a good organiser can analyse problems of this kind and deliver a proper responce by doing just this.

Back to the system now just tough of something :

Another tweak could be to add CO approved insertions so respawn time would depend on the avalability of the virtual helicopter.

In ex : Squad A is currently respawing. Co approves the respawn and sends the virtual chopper and sends the ETA ( in EX 10 min ). Another call comes in. Squad B requests respawn reinforcement . Squad B has to wait for squad A to finish respawning simulating that transport is currently unavailable.

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by Metalsynth

I dont think most understand the idea of Long_bong.

He is looking for a system that will indirectly influence the players to stay together.

What you're saying in a way is ; ''This problem exists but I'm not willing to give it credit as a real problem because it's lack of maturity from the players''

If you as a game organiser can tweak things enough to make it seemless and actually make people act the way you need them to without having to cram 3 tons of ''holier than thou'' of proper conduct lectures, would you do it?

In a way, I think a good organiser can analyse problems of this kind and deliver a proper responce by doing just this.

Back to the system now just tough of something :

Another tweak could be to add CO approved insertions so respawn time would depend on the avalability of the virtual helicopter.

In ex : Squad A is currently respawing. Co approves the respawn and sends the virtual chopper and sends the ETA ( in EX 10 min ). Another call comes in. Squad B requests respawn reinforcement . Squad B has to wait for squad A to finish respawning simulating that transport is currently unavailable.

There is a few things you can do. The easiest is invite only games. Basically invite teams that are organized, well established, with good attitudes. Secondly would be make radios mandatory. Thirdly, have force commanders who have direct comms with each team leader. Make sure "every" straggler was designated a team before game start, and if you have small or disorganized groups then you assign them a commander from your roster of admins, or well knowns.

[Metalsynth]

Pretty much everything you say has been done and had hit&miss results Ricochet and current results show that respawns are a major issue regarding squad integrity.

You have to think outside the box for a moment and basically not count on what you think they should do but rather at what they are doing and redirect instead of trying to direct kinda like jiu-jitsu.

I know all too well what you mean, I got a team because of chronic frustrations from players playing bb trolling in game.

[Con Murder]

I had a thought about this, unfortunately my local community has no appetite for change.
Every player carries some bandages 2-5 or whatever. They each can revive and if they run out of bandages they can simply harvest any from wounded teammates. At any time the squad can go back to respawn/command and remove the bandages, thus restocking them.
This would keep squads together and squads would be able to operate longer in the field. On the other end you would be forced to kill off a squad or risk their vengeance, also the bandage(s) may give be spotted easier.

I think it adds some cool dimensions and trade offs, similar to other medic rules and for the most part simple to apply in most settings and communities.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

If squads want to stay together they will.

You can't make them.

Maintaining unit cohesiveness is a commad responsibility, it's resource management.

[Hectic]

Well that revived an old thread lol.
But to touch on your idea. That is something that has been used but one thing that works well that Trev does is he has length of cord (not too long like a foot long) attached to carabieners. He hands em out to each player.
When your hit you call out for a medic. Someone comes to you and ties a knot in the rope and your alive. You can change it up but for this example lets say you have two "bandages" (ie 2 knots can be tied in the field)
Once your two knots have been tied you are eithet out (use this for short skirms) or you have to go to base to pic up more bandages (ie untie your two knots) and re deploy. (for longer games)
Doing this makes teams work together to ensure the "no man left behind" motto is upheld. Always staying close to the downed men clearing the area and reviving the dead when alot of guys are on their seccond knot everyone extracts to the base/spawn point and unties existing knots and goes back in full force.
To add more dynamic to this you can make it posible to move injured players (say a player is down and you can get to him but sticking round to tie a knot will get you killed too. You get your squad to suppress get to the player put a hand on him or he puts one on you so you can shoot while you pull him back to beter cover to tie the knot. Note that using the dead player as cover isnt alloud. The live player should be between the enemy and the dead one and if the dead player is hit he should drop again allowing the enemy a chance to hit the live one too(say the suppresed enemy sent a flanking group that has a line on the live player but the dead one was in the way only fair they have the chance to kill the "medic")
Its not as complicated as i just made it seem.
Lemme rephrase
If you getting extracted and you get shot hit the ground till your touched again. Lol thats beter.

[Akhéron Sombre]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

If squads want to stay together they will.

You can't make them.

Maintaining unit cohesiveness is a commad responsibility, it's resource management.

+1

[TV-PressPass]

Huzzah thread revive!

Like many others have said: Radios and Comms are #1

Personally I'm a big fan of having a squad net and a command net. One quick blast on the squad net of "you're in charge now" means that you'll get your replacement squad leader reaching up to command pretty darn quick.

After the respawn: having a radio connection on the squad net means you're much more likely to track them down and regroup easily.

I like the knots idea, but I'm usually pretty hesitant when it comes to field respawns. Especially when dealing with objectives or tight spaces.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Excerpt from JOTF-SOG SOP

Action on separation from your unit.

28. If separated and not hit. move to the last designated Re-organization point. Contact your unit by Radio with the codeword “lost Puppy” The radio message should be “A1 this is A5 -Lost Puppy. Your Unit will provide you with Joining instructions or you may be directed to make your way to their location.
If separated and HIT go to your respawn point and then report to the designated rally point and execute the “lost puppy” message.
The primary responsibility of any unit member that is separated from their unit for any reason is to re-join their unit.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by TV-PressPass

Huzzah thread revive!

Like many others have said: Radios and Comms are #1

Personally I'm a big fan of having a squad net and a command net. One quick blast on the squad net of "you're in charge now" means that you'll get your replacement squad leader reaching up to command pretty darn quick.

After the respawn: having a radio connection on the squad net means you're much more likely to track them down and regroup easily.

I like the knots idea, but I'm usually pretty hesitant when it comes to field respawns. Especially when dealing with objectives or tight spaces.

This is true but in practice it isn't always easy to set up.

A perfect example is a recent game in Quebec City which counted 351 players on the field (AFAIK the biggest game in Canada to date): given the limited number of usable channels (FRS+GMRS), split between two teams, minus one for admin/emergencies, setting up command and squad nets proved difficult.

On paper we came up with a solid plan, but in practice it went to hell pretty fast due to the size of the field and the inability for separated elements from raising comms with their platoon/squad, breakdown in comms between hq and forward units (probably due to range and terrain) etc.

This resulted in a lot of chaos, confusion, friendly fire, etc.

So in situations like that, having a backup plan is a must.

[TV-PressPass]

Oh no doubt. I'm picturing 30-100 player games here.

Although . . . 7 channels . . . 12 or so privacy codes. You could probably make it work, but you'd want a flowchart of some kind!

I guess that's why the armed forces run a lot bigger radios with a lot more nets eh?

[Drake]

Originally Posted by TV-PressPass

Oh no doubt. I'm picturing 30-100 player games here.

Although . . . 7 channels . . . 12 or so privacy codes. You could probably make it work, but you'd want a flowchart of some kind!

I guess that's why the armed forces run a lot bigger radios with a lot more nets eh?

Yeah in hindsight CTCSS and low power (0.5-1w) Tx for squad comms should have been a must (just to talk to your squad in close proximity) and there should have been an inter-squad net in addition to command: so many times we weren't sure if a group was friendly or hostile, didn't have comms with them if they were friendly (no way to know which channel they're on) and couldn't raise hq.