I feel like Im getting screwed.

[Outcast569]

So how do I deal with this if he full out refuses to pay for every thing?

[Outcast569]

Alrighty, so after some chatting with out even mentioning him paying me back this is what happened.

Outcast is my self ( Guitar, W. Jason )
Rob is (Robincalgary, Rob Hassell off the JOC boards)

After a few comments of the gun not working when I called him

Rob says:
figure out whats wrong with it

Outcast. says:
No, either way Im getting shafted now

Rob says:
you better not think im shafting you

Outcast. says:
Doesnt really matter at this point.

Rob says:
so in short you think i am...

Outcast. says:
No death in the family is a valid reason for needing cash. But look at it this way. I sold a working gun and when I get it back is broke. Last I knew it worked fine. You say it did. But in the end Im out a gun.
I dont do subdelty if I think your deliberatly messing with me Id say that

Rob says:
now your calling me a liar... you better choose your next words very carefully... i don't take disrespect very well...

Outcast. says:
Like i said subdelty isnt a strong suit. If I thought you were deberatly screwing me Id call you on it. All I know is that neither one of us can explain why is not working at this time. If I thought you were like that I wouldnt have sold it to you in the first place.

Rob says:
you know it was working the last time we played... i was shooting you with it... you can not denie that

Outcast. says:
You are right. I know it was. I also know that I had no issues with it for 6 months. Every game you had issues with it for various reasons. What confusses me is how it suddenly stoppes working in that week. You cant say you wouldnt be curious.
Mainly cause you told me it didnt leave the holster, Ive never seen that real or airsoft. The only time any thing like that happens is lack of maitnence. And last friday I did it of all and you said you didnt take it apart so I have to assume that its still lubed correctly

Rob says:
you really starting to piss me off...

Outcast. says:
Piss you off all it comes to but if you were in my position you wouldnt be to happy about the situation either. If you got a broken gun and were out 500 you would be pissed off to.

Rob says:
i would look into it but i wouldn't go accusing and pointing fingers til i had proof....
something you seem incapable of doing

Outcast. says:
All i said word for word was I sold it in good working order and with in the span of a week it does not work. Thats not accusing or pointing fingers at all. Thats exactly what happened.

Rob says:
im done... this is retarded... i got my money back you got your gun and gear back... we are done... you lost a shooting buddy and a friend.... you are no longer welcome at any game i arrange... if we happen to go to the same game arraged by someone else do not expect a warm welcome from me... im done... might as well loose my number and my msn address...
if you bad mouth me in anyway or anywhere and i find out about it i will inform everyone i know about it and you will be charged with defimation a character
leave it as is and i will do the same
good bye

And that it as of 11:35AM that was the last message...

Really how do I proceed from here? I know I look like a tool here and trust me I feel it. Is it possible for him to do what he is saying?

[m102404]

That's a rough deal.

I would feel that you are entitled to your goods back, and entitled to keep the "deposit" he made. Call it payment for time/effort...call it a rental fee...whatever. But that's your money in your pocket and should not be returned regardless.

In the end, he owes you the amount he promised, and what you agreed to in good faith. It's entirely up to you if you want to take your goods back and relieve him of his financial obligations to you. Personally, you sold that stuff 'cause you didn't want it...you don't really want it back, but getting something of potential value is better than getting a kick in the nuts.

Otherwise...speak to all the game hosts and have them blacklist him until he settles this sideways deal with you. Petition the forums to degrade his account until he settles to your satisfaction.

Absolutely though...shit happens and real life should take priority...but being responsible is a priority as well. The "perks" of being a responsible person with regards to airsoft are (or at least should be)...1) being allowed to play at the various venues and 2) being allowed to participate in the community. Irresponsible = remove perks.

AND...it's incredibly irritating if someone who has money outstanding because they "just can't make ends meet and are down on their luck", or bitches and whines that they don't have the money for basic stuff (i.e. googles, bbs, propane adaptor, boots, etc...), sure finds the time/effort/money to come out to games and shoot it up for a night. All that does is make it glaringly obvious that they consider their personal indulgances a higher priority than their commitments to others. I.E. They don't f*cking care about paying you...as long as they get to shoot it up for the evening with your gun they got for a great deal.

Cause tension...ban the a**hole...run him out of town... (I'm a little grumpy at the moment, that may not be the best way to go about things after a moment of reflection...LOL)

*to hand over things without full payment is kind of silly...but it's your judgement call. But, I bet you won't be easily inclined to do that again will you? However, you do have to trust your judgement...and learn to live with the consequences of them.

For example, I'm going to lend a friend about $200-400 in radio equipment and other additional personal items for a game that I'm not even going to. I take him at his word that he'll take care of it as if it were his own. I'm not going to ask for a security deposit...I'm not going to go after him if something breaks (but I think that he'll do what's fair if something goes horribly wrong). I'm going to be bummed if it's all trashed...but that's life.

Just my $0.02. Hope it works out for you in the end.

Tys

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Outcast569

So how do I deal with this if he full out refuses to pay for every thing?

He has nothing to pay for... you gave him his money back.. he gave you back the gun

the deal is done ... the fact that it does not work is NOT HIS PROBLEM.. he says he never used it.. so unless you are going to call him out as a liar .. obviously it was not as working as you thought it was.

you screwed up 2 times

1. by delivering a gun before it was paid for
2. by accepting it back and giving him the money..

so its just as if the deal never happened .. what difference does it make that the gun now does not work ... Either HE broke your gun or you did but it was your gun

he just borrowed it ... and you had no agreement that he would fix it if he broke it..

so lesson learned

and by the way you botched the communication after the fact

What you should have said..

is too bad about your death in the family , sorry for your loss

and walked away wiser

the ROOT cause here is thet you did not get your money up front..

ALL of this .. including the fact that you now have a new enemy that sounds like he can cut you out of the local community is your fault because you choose to not do this transaction in a business like manner

There is a litany of similar deals gone sour threads on here.. all of them have similar trends... Trust is poor glue ... CASH is cement

you screwed up.. and continued to screw up... and now you earned the reward

By the way..... Everything that Tyson said above is ALSO 100% True

that's the thing with bad deals.. its all fu**ed up

and Tys... don't worry.. you know i"m good for it

[pusangani]

you're a fool for giving him the gun without receiving ALL the money, that's not how it works, secondly you should've tested the gun in front of him when he returned it to you, you get what you deserve, but thanks for alerting us to his ways, I'll never deal with him!

[Donster]

while the seller screwed up, i dont think its fair to blame him for all that has happened. i think that the seller should have his gun returned, and the buyer should have his money returned, minus the amount required to fix the gun to its previous working condition. i think that is a fair compromise.

[safx]

First your nice enough to go above and
beyond to give a "game buddy" a break
and he completely takes advantage. Am
I right to assume he's not a real friend
you hang with outside airsoft events?

So let me clarify— he was using the gun
you sold him for "x" amount of time, then
wants his deposit back for personal issues,
you refund him and get returned a non-
functioning gun?

IMO, it's obvious it broke in his hands, or
it was damaged in shipping, so since
he was last to posses it, he's responsible.
He should pay for the repairs/parts, but
you should have kept the deposit to cover
the time used/repairs.

Kindly direct him to this thread here on
ASC, so he can see what we think of his
type of dealing.

[m102404]

I know you'll do what's right/fair...I know where you park your car ('nuff said)..HAHAHA just kidding....or am I??...I am, sort of

To Outcast...
I didn't see that you had taken it back. If you took your stuff back...the deal is done, the issue is done...and you fucked up. If you gave him back his original amount of money...the deal is super done and you're SOL.

YES...you got the shaft...but you stood it upright and sat yourself down on it.


It is completely your word against his. Why it broke, under what terms either of you could back out of a deal, what "warranty" (warranties are 100% useless in airsoft) you'd offer.

To be frank...if he bought a gun and it didn't work 1 second after he test fired and accepted it....then he bought a broken gun.

I recently sold a pistol to a buddy...we both put 2 mags through it before he took it home. He was 100% happy with it. Then I get a call the next day from him saying that it's locking up and not working. What to do? Immediately, I offered to take a look at it and see if anything could be remedied. Today I called him and offered him the choice of giving it back or having it looked at to see if could be fixed. Is the latest offer above and beyond....personally I don't think so. I trust him that when he says that he didn't do anything to it, I believe him. I don't want him to be soured by the fact that the "new" pistol that he just bought doesn't work.

On the flip side....I just bought an AGM M4 GBBR. Used once. Bought it from a teammate. The mag was disassembled so I couldn't test fire it when he brought it over. Cursory visual inspection...it seemed to be ok. I accepted it and paid him. After reassembling the mag...I got just a couple of shots off through it before it locked up. After wrestling with it, I found that the bolt was completely shattered.
- Was I bummed?....yes, I have a $400 paperweight.
- Was I pissed at myself?...no.
- Was I pissed at my teammate?...no (although I called him, swore A LOT and we ended up laughing about it). No because I knew that the item I was buying was a finicky thing that stood a good chance of breaking.
- Did he offer a refund to me?...no. That would have been great, but not expected.
- I sold it for $200 the next day....$200 pissed away
- Does my wife think I'm an idiot? Yes...she spent a good bit of time making sure I was crystal clear on that point.

Tys

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

He has nothing to pay for... you gave him his money back.. he gave you back the gun

the deal is done ... the fact that it does not work is NOT HIS PROBLEM.. he says he never used it.. so unless you are going to call him out as a liar .. obviously it was not as working as you thought it was.

you screwed up 2 times

1. by delivering a gun before it was paid for
2. by accepting it back and giving him the money..

so its just as if the deal never happened .. what difference does it make that the gun now does not work ... Either HE broke your gun or you did but it was your gun

he just borrowed it ... and you had no agreement that he would fix it if he broke it..

so lesson learned

and by the way you botched the communication after the fact

What you should have said..

is too bad about your death in the family , sorry for your loss

and walked away wiser

the ROOT cause here is thet you did not get your money up front..

ALL of this .. including the fact that you now have a new enemy that sounds like he can cut you out of the local community is your fault because you choose to not do this transaction in a business like manner

There is a litany of similar deals gone sour threads on here.. all of them have similar trends... Trust is poor glue ... CASH is cement

you screwed up.. and continued to screw up... and now you earned the reward

By the way..... Everything that Tyson said above is ALSO 100% True

that's the thing with bad deals.. its all fu**ed up

and Tys... don't worry.. you know i"m good for it

[pusangani]

Originally Posted by Donster

while the seller screwed up, i dont think its fair to blame him for all that has happened. i think that the seller should have his gun returned, and the buyer should have his money returned, minus the amount required to fix the gun to its previous working condition. i think that is a fair compromise.

no doubt about that, but the gun WAS returned, thus completing the deal, the seller should not have taken back the gun without verifying that the gun was in the same condition it was sold in, even still, he could've told the guy he would let him pay later and told him he could not return the first payment

[safx]

Guess everyone likes reiterating how
and how bad you got the shaft... fags,
get your minds off the pole.

Fact remains, airsoft is a reputation
based sport/hobby. All you can do is
collect the pm's and transaction info
to post here and on JOC. Maybe he'll
change his tune after being exposed,
maybe he won't but we'll know who
he is and avoid.

[Lakonian]

What an effing prick. I like how hot headed he got...

Thanks for posting his name, btw.

[Outcast569]

To clear this up, no he wasnt a friend out side airsoft. He posted about hosting friday mornings at a paintball field as a new player into Alberta.

I used this gun since May when I bought it for Claybank. It worked for a full week AFTER I sold it to him (his own admission)and the day he gives it back to me it no longer works.

Gun worked the last time I saw it at the field. But does not work the day he gives it back to me. I called him not 20 min after he drove away from my house about it.

[shiftsup]

Your airsoft friend / customer acts like a little girl.

it sounds as if he got mad and wanted to break up with you with that "lost my number / msn" nonsense.

Business lesson learned and better off without the douchebag.

That dude seriously lacks.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Outcast569

To clear this up, no he wasnt a friend out side airsoft. He posted about hosting friday mornings at a paintball field as a new player into Alberta.

I used this gun since May when I bought it for Claybank. It worked for a full week AFTER I sold it to him (his own admission)and the day he gives it back to me it no longer works.

Gun worked the last time I saw it at the field. But does not work the day he gives it back to me. I called him not 20 min after he drove away from my house about it.

Awesome...

so he admited that it worked.. so his "never came out of the holster" statement is a lie

alright.. I stand corrected... this fellow is a liar and his word is worth nothing.. Knave! Scoundrel!

Still... don't set yourself up to find this out about people...If you had done a cash deal .. you would not be dealing with this. and everyone would still be happy little gun buddies

[Outcast569]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Awesome...

so he admited that it worked.. so his "never came out of the holster" statement is a lie

alright.. I stand corrected... this fellow is a liar and his word is worth nothing.. Knave! Scoundrel!

Still... don't set yourself up to find this out about people...If you had done a cash deal .. you would not be dealing with this. and everyone would still be happy little gun buddies

Ya definatly learned my lesson with this. I mean hell I didnt even ask for cash back and he hit the fan.

So I take it there is absolutely no chance in hell Ill be getting any money back.