Convert real steel M4 to Airsoft?

[Danke]

While we're on the subject of converting stuff,,,

YouTube - MY BELTFED 12 GAUGE UPPER RECEIVER

[mcguyver]

In order to buy an AR 15 in Canada (M4 is prohibited), you need an RPAL as well as a range membership, and ATT to at least get it to your house. Then you would need to do some serious machining to even get GBB internals into it (probably the easiest way). And you won't be paying $899 for a complete AR, unless you get a Norinco POS (poor machining, poor finishing, etc.). Even a decent starter AR will be $1500+ new, perhaps a bit less used. Then, no matter where you go, it will still be a restricted firearm, and subject to a boatload of regs that really make it not worth it.

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

+1. Got to try a couple of them so far - 1 stock, one VERY upgraded. They feel nice to hold, but otherwise, left me unimpressed. My CA M15 was a far better gun, more solid, doesn't need to be handled like a china doll for fear of breaking it, more accurate, and 1/3 of the price.

HaHaHa. That's funny. There is no such thing as a very upgraded PTW. Best you can do is a CNC lower, and a real upper. You might try some do-dads on the gun, no different than any other AEG. And I've repaired, modded and built dozens upon dozens of PTWs. Funny they're very popular out west, maybe the guys out east just can't seem to figure them out. A Classic Army more solid than a PTW, that's rich.

If he wants to buy a PTW or GBB, it's his choice. Not like he's going to find very many of either to chose from.

And I'd take you on in accuracy and range any day, even with a CQB. And not at 20 feet, lets try 200.

[Crunchmeister]

Well, I don't know jack shit about PTW internals. I know it had a tightbore and some other shit he was telling me about. I was left unimpressed by its performance. Same with the stock one. And both were factory guns, not poorly assemble SCKs. My CA was more accurate and more consistent than either of their guns. Take that as you will.

[mcguyver]

They come with 6.04mm ID inner barrels with a 10mm OD, and have since Sept. 2006, all models.

I can adjust my hop up to make it perform poorly, too.

Funny, after about 45-50K rounds at 420 fps, I haven't had to change my $3 hop-up (US retail), nor done anything but clean the barrel a couple of times per year. But I did do a 2008 version up kit for them, since I virtually gave away my boards to fix other guys' messes. I wouldn't call that an "upgrade" though, rather the cheapest way to get the most parts.

I have yet to have any AEG, stock or heavily upgraded, that lasted as long, and didn't require alot of work. And I've had alot, no clones either.

[Mister Donut]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

In order to buy an AR 15 in Canada (M4 is prohibited), you need an RPAL as well as a range membership, and ATT to at least get it to your house. Then you would need to do some serious machining to even get GBB internals into it (probably the easiest way). And you won't be paying $899 for a complete AR, unless you get a Norinco POS (poor machining, poor finishing, etc.). Even a decent starter AR will be $1500+ new, perhaps a bit less used. Then, no matter where you go, it will still be a restricted firearm, and subject to a boatload of regs that really make it not worth it.

HaHaHa. That's funny. There is no such thing as a very upgraded PTW. Best you can do is a CNC lower, and a real upper. You might try some do-dads on the gun, no different than any other AEG. And I've repaired, modded and built dozens upon dozens of PTWs. Funny they're very popular out west, maybe the guys out east just can't seem to figure them out. A Classic Army more solid than a PTW, that's rich.

If he wants to buy a PTW or GBB, it's his choice. Not like he's going to find very many of either to chose from.

And I'd take you on in accuracy and range any day, even with a CQB. And not at 20 feet, lets try 200.

Oh I know it's not a real M4. It's just a made in China AR clone, no doubt about it. I know the finish on it iisn't all that great. As long as bullets go in, and the gun goes bang when I pull the trigger, that's fine with me. I know about the restrictions, I know about the regs, and I know that this is going to be an expensive toy that I can only use at the range. My friend just took the course this weekend and I'm probably registering for one in two weeks. $195 plus tax for a two day course and tests, plus the $80 app, and two references.

As far as GBB and PTWs are are concerned, I've decided to just keep my little TM AEG for playtime. If I'm going to shell out anything more than $900 for the sake of realism, it better spit out 5.56mm full metal jackets. $2000 for airsoft is out of my tax bracket.

I've got absolutely nothing against blowing lots of cake on airsoft, if I had wads of cash, I'd do the same. But if the realism I can afford to to buy will restrict my experience to shooting at a stationary paper target down the range, then so be it.

[mcguyver]

I own a Bushmaster AR, and having become a little familiar with that over the last few years I've owned it, I was really disappointed in the Norinco CQ311. For the price, it seems OK, but the quality control is a tad on the BLECHH!! side.

Their M305 gets rave reviews, and many prefer it over the Springfield.

I have a hard time swallowing $800 for the Norc when you can still get Stag, Bushy, etc for double the price, and Imperial for a little less.

I don't think I'd waste the cost and effort and risks for a real lower on an airsoft gun.

[Ronan]

Buy a Systema PTW, stick a RS upper and Prime lower.

[Ming_the_Merciless]

Interesting, I had no idea that Norinco even made an AR. And out of sheer curiousity, if I moved state-side to Canada, what would I have to do to be able to bring my guns with me legally?

[mcguyver]

Visit www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca and you'll be able to find lists of prohibited firearms, restricted and non-restricted.

All the good shit stateside usually falls into the restricted and prohibited classes. If it's prohibited, no way in frosty hell you'll be bringing that to Canada. Restricted would be only slightly easier.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by The Saint

The legality isn't that terrible, all things considered. But it sure as hell ain't practical in the least.

The modified gun would have to be registered as a restricted weapon as I assume you would use a real lower receiver, and you could only ever bring it to a registered firing range and shoot it there. You would need be able to sell the weapon to anyone who doesn't have all the necessary carry ownership cards for the real gun. You would have to store the weapon as it's real

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

The modified gun would have to be registered as a restricted weapon as I assume you would use a real lower receiver, and you could only ever bring it to a registered firing range and shoot it there. You would need be able to sell the weapon to anyone who doesn't have all the necessary carry ownership cards for the real gun. You would have to store the weapon as it's real

You're missing the point, read a little more closely.

The person would've already had to have the licence and registration for a real steel AR prior to such a conversion to airsoft, otherwise he wouldn't have the real steel AR. And unless the conversion to airsoft is one-way, there is no addition registration or reporting protocols to follow. He also said nothing about transferring it.

[Mister Donut]

Originally Posted by The Saint

You're missing the point, read a little more closely.

The person would've already had to have the licence and registration for a real steel AR prior to such a conversion to airsoft, otherwise he wouldn't have the real steel AR. And unless the conversion to airsoft is one-way, there is no addition registration or reporting protocols to follow. He also said nothing about transferring it.

Sorry for creating this mess guys. All I really wanted to know was if there were parts that could be stuffed into real steel to make it shoot BB's.

I got thinking because with all these new PTWs and GBBs with real steel compatable parts, how much of a real gun can actually be used for airsoft? I mean, some of these PTWs and GBBs are being promoted as being the most realistic airsoft guns on the market, with virtually 90% (Just a guess here) part interchangable with real guns. These systems go for anywhere around $1000-2000 CAD or more, when I can get a complete real steel Norinco AR for $900 CAD.

Now I've learned that some parts simply cannot do the cross-over unless it's a one-way trip with machining, Before I started this thread, I foolishly thought that it was a simple matter of taking out the working parts of a real AR, and cramming all that stuff from GBBs or PTWs into the body to make the thing fire BBs. I was thinking it would be a simple procedure that could easily be reversable.

I don't know a whole lot about guns and airsoft right now. I know some about cars, and with cars, I know that sometimes it's cheaper to buy a complete car and part it out for the parts. I just thought it might be the case in the Norinco I found at a local shop. Again, I know the finish is shit, but a can of spray paint is $5.

Ok, so now I know that it is impossible to put airsoft internals (whether it's GBB or PTW) into real steel without destroying the real AR. I agree, that would be foolish. So was my estimate correct about percentage of real gun parts used on PTW or GBB? Maybe 90% was a little too high, and I probably should be asking further questions in the PTW or GBB thread now that I know the answer to my first stupid question.

I'm still going to buy the Norinco AR for the range, even after all of this, and I've completely abandoned the silly notion of a crossover gun that can be easily modified for both uses.

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by Mister Donut

Ha ha, I'm going to follow your advice. I'm just going to buy it and hope she doesn't notice.

She'll notice.

Buy one for each of you. It'll help the relationship.

[Mr.Shiney]

Even if you could complete the suggested modifications, and have your local Registar of Firearms acknowledge that is it no longer a firearm per se. Even if you could get permission to take out of your house and not to an authorized range, and too an airsoft event. I would object to its presence on the field. I would in no way participate in an event where a firearm that takes real projectiles that has been modified to airsoft bbs. I think that the possibility of a possible safety related event or a legal situation would present itself way to quickly.

Ubique
Osons

Michael

[Mister Donut]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne

She'll notice.

Buy one for each of you. It'll help the relationship.

Just throught I'd bring this thread back from the dead. I've learned a lot since I posted this thread and just for the record, I have no intentions or notions of doing any stupid conversions. I've gotten my PAL, and I've gone and bought a Norc CQ-A. I love it, I don't care what people think, the finish on it isn't great, but not that bad. The only issue I had with it was when I shot .22lr out of it with the CMMG conversion, but the issue was my fault, I didn't clean it thuroughly (supposed to clean the gas tube by shooting 5.56 out of it afterwards, as per instructions on the CMMG kit). In the end, I got it up and running and it works just fine.

Ever since I got my PAL, it was one gun after another and now I'm on the $hitlist with the wife. I bought the CQ-A (well, she bought it) as a Christmas present for myself. Then I bought the Norc M14S/M305 as a grad present from BMQ. Then I bought a pistol and a shotgun which I didn't tell her about, and enough ammo to feed all the pigs for a month, and when she saw the credit card bill, she was pissed.

Anyway, you're wondering why I'm digging up a thread where I asked one of the dumbest things ever posted on ASC. Well, I'm starting to sell my airsoft stuff (got the CC and bank acct taken away so I can't buy any more guns or ammo) to subsidize my new hobby, I've offloading all my airsoft stuff. I posted my TM M4A1 RIS on Craigtslist and I get this guy who asks me to trade his .45 Colt for my airsoft rifle. At first, I was thinking hell yeah, I'll trade my airsoft for real steel. So I try to get some info out of the guy and I find out it's been "Converted" WTF? Why would anyone take a "Colt's Mk 5 / Series '70 Gold Cup National Match .45 Automatic Caliber" and turn it into "non blow back co2 airsoft". Why would anyone do this???? Is it even possible???? My guess is it's completely butchered and not even worth trading for parts, I was a bit tired of chasing this guy for information and felt an arguement was about to start.

Here's the Craigslist post and the e-mail chain for your reading pleasure (I've changed the name to protect the identity of the seller, but I guess it wouldn't be hard to track down:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...204141654.html

From: Colt 45
To: Mister Donut
Subject: FS: New TM M4A1 R.I.S. Never Gamed - $500 (Vancouver)
Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2012 13:02

Personally it would be easier because selling a real fire arm is illegal and since it's a real firearm turned into a airsoft, it would grasp more attention

On 2012-08-15, at 10:30 AM, Mister Donut wrote:
Hmmm...I've never heard of anything like that before. It will be hard to sell I think.

Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: Colt 45
To: Mister Donut
Subject: FS: New TM M4A1 R.I.S. Never Gamed - $500 (Vancouver)
Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2012 09:29

I used to be a real gun but had to be changed to a non blow back co2 airsoft.

Here is a link to my post.
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...204141654.html

On 2012-08-15, at 9:25 AM, Mister Donut wrote:
Okay, so let me understand, you have a real gun for sale or an airsoft gun for sale? Who does it belong to? I would like details and pictures

Sent from my HTC
----- Reply message -----
From: Colt 45
To: Mister Donut
Subject: FS: New TM M4A1 R.I.S. Never Gamed - $500 (Vancouver)
Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2012 08:29

I searched it up. I have a serial number for proof. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to scam you or something haha

On 2012-08-15, at 1:29 AM, Mister Donut wrote:
Sorry, I don't know much about the Colt MK5

________________________________________
From: Colt 45
To: Mister Donut
Subject: RE: FS: New TM M4A1 R.I.S. Never Gamed - $500 (Vancouver)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 00:10:34 -0400
I just started to get into airsoft gun and I wanted to sell my grandpa gave me a permission to sell his..
Do you think you could help me out bro? On ebay, it sells for $800 - $1200

> From: Mister Donut
> To: Colt 45
> Subject: Re: FS: New TM M4A1 R.I.S. Never Gamed - $500 (Vancouver)
> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 17:25:54 -0700
>
> Hi
>
> Sorry, I thought you were talking about a real steel, not airsoft. I would
> be willing to trade for a real gun, but not Airsoft. I'm getting out of
> airsoft so I'm selling all my airsoft stuff.
>
> Thanks for the offer though.
>
> Peter
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: Colt 45
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 5:12 PM
> To: Mister Donut
> Subject: Re: FS: New TM M4A1 R.I.S. Never Gamed - $500 (Vancouver)
>
> > Here is a link to my sale.
> >
> > http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...204141654.html
> >
> > On 2012-08-14, at 5:00 PM, Mister Donut wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Are we talking trading my Airsoft rifle for something you have that's
> >> real steel?
> >>
> >> I already have a 1911(Remington), but if you can send me some pictures of
> >> what you have, I will think about it.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> From: Colt 45
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 2:12 PM
> >> To: <hhqt4-3198896016@sale.craigslist.org>
> >> Subject: FS: New TM M4A1 R.I.S. Never Gamed - $500 (Vancouver)
> >>
> >>> ** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY
> >>> ** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home
> >>> ** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping
> >>> ** More Info: http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams
> >>>
> >>> Hey would you be interested in trading the gun for my colt's .45 auto
> >>> caliber?
> >>>
> >>> http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...198896016.html
> >>>
> >>>
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