What is your true definition of "Milsim"

[Splinter]

Really long post so I scanned through and picked what sticks out to me as far as milsim goes and what I personally think would be great..

Limited ammo.. Mid caps.. With exception of LMG for support.. As well as possibly support section in depth with more ammo..

Fireteams/sections- not mad dash everyone for themself killem all school kid paintball birthday party..

All this depending on event.. Of course bigger events have chain of command ASC vet would be essentially a platoon cmmd and give fire orders as such..

I'm out now but I did 6 years in the CF I pretty much picture milsim as somewhat like a feild ex or what we would do in a kill house with the wax tip ammo.. I understand its hard to get all this just from guys showing up at let's say a FR game.. But I think it would be cool if some games were more structure based not just green vs tan kinda game.. That's just my 2 cents but of course I know many people who just like to high cap spray and pray kill em all and let off some steam in between COD clan battles!.. And that's cool too what ever floats your boat, sail away



Props for Ricochet on earlier post!

[ThunderCactus]

If you want real 100% milsim, here's a perfect game:
24 hours.
Tan team is 50 dudes.
You're told to show up to a base where you'll immediately receive further orders.
Wait 4 hours.
Get orders there's a group of 4-6 rebels hold up in a shack 20 miles south of here.
Ride on deuce for 19 miles.
They have RPGs. Walk the last mile.
Show up and there's nobody there.
Go back to base.
wait for orders for 6 hours.
Have a single random mortar land in base, have everyone lose their shit trying to find a mortar team that's already fucked off.
Wait some more.
Get orders to go link up with a battalion that's going to siege a city.
Get to the city, all the work is already done.

[Ricochet]

Another job well done.

[ThunderCactus]

Or better yet, 12 hours of sandbagging in brandon lol

[Splinter]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

If you want real 100% milsim, here's a perfect game:
24 hours.
Tan team is 50 dudes.
You're told to show up to a base where you'll immediately receive further orders.
Wait 4 hours.
Get orders there's a group of 4-6 rebels hold up in a shack 20 miles south of here.
Ride on deuce for 19 miles.
They have RPGs. Walk the last mile.
Show up and there's nobody there.
Go back to base.
wait for orders for 6 hours.
Have a single random mortar land in base, have everyone lose their shit trying to find a mortar team that's already fucked off.
Wait some more.
Get orders to go link up with a battalion that's going to siege a city.
Get to the city, all the work is already done.

Pretty much sums up a 100% milsim... Which I don't think is anyone's intent of airsoft... Mind you let's say all that in a 24/hr game but you actually get to storm the ' a city ' at dawn in an organized fashion.. That's filled with op for.. That would be a great game IMO

[naminator]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

If you want real 100% milsim, here's a perfect game:
24 hours.
Tan team is 50 dudes.
You're told to show up to a base where you'll immediately receive further orders.
Wait 4 hours.
Get orders there's a group of 4-6 rebels hold up in a shack 20 miles south of here.
Ride on deuce for 19 miles.
They have RPGs. Walk the last mile.
Show up and there's nobody there.
Go back to base.
wait for orders for 6 hours.
Have a single random mortar land in base, have everyone lose their shit trying to find a mortar team that's already fucked off.
Wait some more.
Get orders to go link up with a battalion that's going to siege a city.
Get to the city, all the work is already done.

You forgot to hydrate...

[Ricochet]

I love the simulation and realism that airsoft can bring, but only to an extent. I would totally do a full on simulation just for the experience, but as far as airsoft goes, it all has to balance out with the competitiveness to keep my interest. For starters I wear full high-end military gear, but I don't wear plates to cut down on weight and I wear what's effective for me on the field, I don't try to copy some special ops group or anything. I plan my game style around things like enemy respawns and open ended gameplay, such as I know the enemy will come back so it has an affect on my tactics or that I can push a lot harder on an objective because if I die I'll ger multiple chances and opportunities. If I had one life only for an event, my whole play style would change drastically. I like objectives and competition, but in many regards I treat it more like hockey than real life combat. I think the gear and tactics that create the advantage is what people get hooked on, or the addition of military style objectives and story make people think "simulation". To be honest, I'd probably approach a capture the flag game and an op style game the same way, perhaps different methodology to win but the mindset doesn't change. So for me, no, most airsoft games, even the complex ones are not full simulation.

[grantmac]

Big +1 on that Richocet

I personally cannot stand long respawn times. Unless you are dealing with a game of literally 100s of people all they do is create stagnation.

-Grant

[Blackthorne]

Milsim will never be an all encompassing title. There are different levels of airsoft events and MilSim describes about 5% of them.

Milsim is mindset.

As has been posted in this most excellent thread, a MilSIm game is the culmination of a whole series of things that range from Host planning to the expectations of the people attending.

The real "deciding factor" that allows me to decide whether or not a game is something I want to attend is, for lack of a better term, suck factor.

I'm not copping a macho shithead attitude here. The amount of hardship you have to endure to complete a mission or tasking in an airsoft game varies, and thats a good thing. I happen to like the events that I attend to have a high level of all the things that most folks like to avoid:

- long walks
- heavy (but mission realistic) loads
- much time spent NOT shooting
- skills that fall outside a "non milsim" game like:
- navigation
- map reading
- high levels of organization at all levels of command
- realistic ammo counts and resupply
- mission that are pass fail with no fallback options ot extend the event if one side simply sucks

Some of the best events i have been to involved me shooting little, or not at all. The experience of working with my team, taking direction from command, executing orders as best we could given the situation, weather, timing etc, AND CONSCIOUSLY IMMERSING MYSELF into the mission.

The best games I have ever attended have been Brians. He has a knack for crafting a situation that is simple enough for everyone involved to own, but complex enough to challenge everyone. I EXPECT "cheating" at Brians games, because people think outside of the box in real life, and he often pushes those boundaries (to the benefit of the event) so that folks are left thinking as much as they are shooting.

[Kokanee]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

If you want real 100% milsim, here's a perfect game:
24 hours.
Tan team is 50 dudes.
You're told to show up to a base where you'll immediately receive further orders.
Wait 4 hours.
Get orders there's a group of 4-6 rebels hold up in a shack 20 miles south of here.
Ride on deuce for 19 miles.
They have RPGs. Walk the last mile.
Show up and there's nobody there.
Go back to base.
wait for orders for 6 hours.
Have a single random mortar land in base, have everyone lose their shit trying to find a mortar team that's already fucked off.
Wait some more.
Get orders to go link up with a battalion that's going to siege a city.
Get to the city, all the work is already done.

Yep, that's pretty much how it is... might I add to that?

Receive warning order for mission, briefing for convoy is in an hour
Show up to briefing 5 minutes early, briefing is actually on other side of the base and was 30 mins ago
Get to briefing late, your crew/vehicle gets stuck with the shittiest tasking in the back of the convoy
Get to location, sit around on standby for four days. Spend time watching movies/playing cards/debating "hot or not", only to find out the mission was cancelled and you've been sitting here for nothing.
Roll out to hook up with convoy to get back to home base, only to find out your Warrant Officer screwed up the date and time, the convoy was leaving on the 9th at 1000hrs, not the 10th at 0900hrs....
Wait another day for convoy, trip that should take three hours takes 12 because you have to check every culvert for IEDs.
Get back to base camp, immediately get jacked up by the first officer you stumble upon on your way to the showers for being unshaven.

[hollywood...]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne

Some of the best events i have been to involved me shooting little, or not at all. The experience of working with my team, taking direction from command, executing orders as best we could given the situation, weather, timing etc, AND CONSCIOUSLY IMMERSING MYSELF into the mission.

The best games I have ever attended have been Brians. He has a knack for crafting a situation that is simple enough for everyone involved to own, but complex enough to challenge everyone. I EXPECT "cheating" at Brians games, because people think outside of the box in real life, and he often pushes those boundaries (to the benefit of the event) so that folks are left thinking as much as they are shooting.

+1

[Ricochet]

Yeah, like I said, the word 'simulation' is thrown around more than Rob's mom; and that's saying something.

[mjust]

Milsim involves lots of delays, game pauses for resets, more or less a giant Skirmish game of "take X, Defend Y, on no X is taken go get it" No rhyme or reason why.

[NitaAlexis]

This is amazing and cool enough to have one the energy to keep going. The enticing part being the games!

[aaronwatson]

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