Thoughts on MultiCam

[Phalanix]

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

ACU has no black, but the lighter tones are not condusive to many natural environments and therefore it fails the color test. Once you've failed the color test, your brain will go out of it's way to make sense out of something.

That's true. It's like the bastard child no one wants. But, for some odd, twisted reason, I still like my set of ACU's.

[SKSMan24]

Well Morbius thank you, that all makes alot of sense, maybe some of your fellow statesmen should take notes from you. Maybe my comment about your army was off color but I was just going on what I have heard.

Something I read online today was that in a Urban camo black is used effectively to break up the image because obvioussly buildings and bricks have black in them, so yes black would be very effective. So all the times I say no black I only mean in the field and yes your right it also has to do with your surroundings and movement, also the farther you get from an object the more your eyes make into black especially shadows etc etc. But if your going to say MarPat and CadPat are good but it is also reliant on surroundings then you have to admit that the same goes with ACU, I know for a fact that ACU works great in early winter/late fall when a MarPat or CadPat wouldn't be as effective due to large amounts of green in them. I have seen many times when ACU worked great and I have seen times when Mar/CadPat worked as well. On the other hand Multicam is made to work in a variety of environments thus "multi" so there for it would be considered alittle more effective I would think than a pattern that you could only wear in one environment, right?

I would like to also clarify the only reason I used the term Canuck is because of the Yanks term that I have heard from posts. Yank (yankee) is a term that people in southern states use for people in Northern states of the USA, it came from our civil war. There is really no reason for any of you to call us Yanks. and there is no reason to refer to you as canucks.

That's kinda my point. ACU was billed as an all-around good choice, my experience is that's is much MORE environment specific than Marpat or Cadpat (moreso Marpat).

The caveat to that statement is that right NOW, for the immediate need and the foreseeable future, ACU is a good fit for the current fighting environment in Iraq or Afghan, or pretty much anywhere in the Middle East. It speaks volumes to me that the US Government would invest this much money in what is essentially (in my opinion) a single-environment uniform, and that they intend to be operating in that environment for a very, VERY long time.

I have a set of ACU as well. It's probably the most comfortable uniform I've EVER worn, and the most practically designed. I also have a set of Ice Tactical Multicam, Marpat and Cadpat. For comfort, the ACU wins. For concealment, it's a seasonal mix between all four, showing again that no single pattern is truly effective in all environments.

[SKSMan24]

Well Morbius I'm not gonna even get started on George dubya and some of the great (lol) decisions he makes, but I do have to question the army for choosing ACU over Multicam, I believe it was all due to the ACU digital, Multicam not digital thing, I believe digital works great but so does non digital pattern. But the government believes that its called "digital" so it must be what we need for the future "it wouldnt surprise me if this was truly the mind set which is sad"

[BORIS]

MadMorbius

I hunt ALOT. I hunt on publicand private land. It just so happens that other people hunt also. Safety is a huge concern when you hunt since a pull of the trigger launches a projectile at a lethal velocity.

My first concern when I setup an ambush site is "are there other hunters around me?" I do not look for the outline of a human. I look for a boot, a guns butstock, a shoulder or maybe a head. Adavantage camo does work well in the woods, but I see alot of it in the woods. 1. past 100 yards and it does not work at all, it looks like one big solid dark blob 2. it is dark very dark, especialy in the late fall when snow may be on the ground. 3. most comercial "hunters" camo are no good, way too specific.

I like multicam because I am in field all year around. right now I can be in a lush green field, the next step in a field of cut corn, and the next will take me into the barn (woodchucks and coons live in the barn so camo is a must in there also) So far ACU and Multicam work the best for this one single application where I travel through multiple enviroments within a few miles. Marpat, cadpat, US woodland, tigerstripe are all too dark and a no no for the tans of the fields of golden wheat in the late summer and cut corn in the spring. If I need to hit the open wheat and bean fields for some woodchuck action, then I can do it and not worry about my tan camo sticking out ('chucks got good eyes and ears)

Please do not take my last post as negative towards all Canadians. I used to go there to snow sculpt for cometition alot and there was always the flag waveing canadian that just wouldn't leave the US guys alone, and after the run in with my wife with me, well that was that. But the Wendy's we had at one of your roadside stops was way more fresh tasteing than it is over here, but then I always did like canadian food better, it always tasted fresher, oh well.........

[FOX_111]

I was in the impression that it was good practice to hunt with a bright orange safety vest.

You may have a leet camo, even a ghillie suit, the deer will spot you by sent or with the noises.

What you are saying don't really make sense. You sound like a big poser with an oversized ego.

[BORIS]

FOX_111

Bow hunters do not wear orange, and gun seasons run with the bow season for deer. By law we only have to wear an orange hat (and most do) and most peeps sit against a tree or brush obstructing their head. So it is a good practice to look for "boots" and such. The day you look for orange and say "good, no orange, I can fling bullets anywhere!!", is a bad day "whats that moveing in that bush over there?", "Cann't be an airsofter......" bang bang. It happens and sometimes that movement was a hunter that may have taken his or her hat off to cool down for a bit. In your game you play in camo all the time. Here buy law you only have to wear (HO) it for certain seasons, and times of the year. Other than that you can go full camo, and alot do. So the next time I see movement or hear something over there, I will look for a boot first. You would be surprised how many times I see that boot when I was for sure I was takeing a squirrell home....

Boris - did you read my post?

Originally Posted by boris

I do not look for the outline of a human. I look for a boot, a guns butstock, a shoulder or maybe a head

A boot is a shape. You see the boot because of the color AND the shape, not the color. A gun buttstock has a certain shape, which your eyes are accustomed to looking for. The head and the shoulder are both recognizeable to you, regaredless of the COLOR.

You're argument was that black stands out in the forest, and that it is not a naturally occuring color. I have explained that black stands out only when it holds a recognizeable shape. These are scientific principles, pal. I didn't make this shit up.

The bottom line is that you will NOT spot somebody immediately due to the black in their marpat, as you stated previously. You'll spot them because your eyes will catch on a shape, or a color, or a silhouette, or react to sound, or spot a shiny surface, or a combination of all and lead you to recognition. That's the way your visual cortex works.

Regardless of whether you're hunting, playing airsoft or just walking down the street, these principles DO NOT CHANGE.

Sorry, one further thing. Do you know WHY bow hunters wear camouflage? Why not deer hunters or moose hunters?

Because deer and moose are colorblind. They're not fooled by color and don't require it to correlate shape.

[BloodSport]

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

Sorry, one further thing. Do you know WHY bow hunters wear camouflage? Why not deer hunters or moose hunters?

Because deer and moose are colorblind. They're not fooled by color and don't require it to correlate shape.

Yup very very True, use to hunt in bright orange jumpsuits, and never had a problem with a deer or moose seeing me. Smelling now thats a different story, but thats what scent sprays are for.

And Boris, from your comments you seem to think that us Canadians do not hunt at all or very little. Did you not realize that most if not all of us have hunted, in fact we have several hunting businesses that cater to American Hunters.

[FOX_111]

I'd like to point out that boots are rarely visible in 99% of the fields due to undergrows.

Him stating that he see people because of their boots is just retarded. If you see somone boot, he can see you better than you do and you will be dead allready.

I see the color of people skin way before I see boots.

[gandar]

Originally Posted by SKSMan24

but I do have to question the army for choosing ACU over Multicam, I believe it was all due to the ACU digital, Multicam not digital thing, I believe digital works great but so does non digital pattern. But the government believes that its called "digital" so it must be what we need for the future "it wouldnt surprise me if this was truly the mind set which is sad"

Actually, Crye priced themselves out of the competition. That's why they went with ACU, they were going to go with MultiCam since it kicked ACU's ass in all the competitions, but Crye said you buy our camo, in our uniform, or nothing at all, and the price was so rediculous that the government told them to take a leap, and went with ACU.

[SKSMan24]

Gandar-

I know that Crye priced themselves out it was just a joke on the state of the US government. And until a Democrat gets elected into office I will continue to poke fun cause I can. I know to some its unbelieveable that you can make fun of a government but I can and do openly. I also feel bad for Canadian's because the state I live in (Michigan) is ran by a Canadian (Jennifer Granholm), and she is ruining this state, trying to take away firearm rights, and other rights that as American's we should have. So, if your Government is ran anything like the way she runs things, no wonder you all resort to playing with toy guns instead of owning real ones... I feel bad for you.

P.S. I'm waiting for more pics, I enjoy seeing camo's and you guys out in the field in them.

[CDN_Stalker]

Sounds like your Canadian that is ruining the state is a Liberal (same as your democrats, just more to the left of center). Funny that you prefer the Democrat policies, yet you hate who is in charge of your state. American liberals (aka. democrats) LOVE to take away all the gun rights you guys have, so it's confusing that you prefer them yet contradictory that you support those that uphold your right to "T-Shirts" (Bear Arms, joke, get it?)

Then again, your democrats are closer to our Conservative Party (of which, those on the left claim are radical right wingers, when in fact they are closer to center than either of you main parties). Be thankful that you dont' have an hard-core socialists in power, or even elected officials that belong to that type of party. We have them, and some have been in power in provinces, and for the most part have damn near ruined those provinces they were in charge of. A lot of the left leaning socialists we have are damn close to communists if you like to think that way.

Anyways, this thread is about multicam and multicam only (ok, camo patterns overall are fine discussion as well) so let's keep it as a camo thread and not get side tracked by politics or else it'll get locked and trashed, ok. I had to comment, but not trying to redirect the thread at all. Debate is good, stupid trolling is stupid, especially when it gets to Canada vs. US of A stuff like what Boris was trying to do. I love the US and Americans, but this isn't the time of place to start stuff relating to it. Unless it's camo related.

[SKSMan24]

CDN-
I thank god every day that we don't have Socialists running this country, but they are trying to get in so might not be that way too much longer.
ne-ways, what camo would all of you recommend for close combat like I'm going to encounter when I start paintballing this summer?? I wouldn't think that a pattern with alot of black in it would be good up close? unless I try to stay completly out of sunlight because the direct sunlight would cancel up the blacks ability to break everything out and it would actually stick out like a sore thumb?? just wanted peoples opinnion? thx