FCC 416D: From the Outside In

[viking9934]

Contigency plan? If flight to hk wasn't that long and expensive i would pay them a visit...

[seabass]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Post a review on youtube? lol

Id subscribe to you brad.... even though your a dick, your my kind of dick

[theshaneler]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

I can promise you right now that FCC lost at least $50,000 in sales in Canada based on my words these last few months. And this is just the people who have contacted me

I was swayed by this review, i was just one click of an emt away from ordering an FCC416, and decided to hold off because of Brad's review.

I was actually just talking to Joe (Azathoth) at the game on Sat. about this thread, and how it convinced me to stick with my Systema.

As far as I am concerned, Brad is the go to guy in the entirety of the Americas for the PTW, and I know I am not alone in my thinking. Any company trying to make it as an "aftermarket upgrade" to the TW platform should be busting their balls trying to get guys like Tankleberry and Brad to endorse the products they sell.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by seabass

Id subscribe to you brad.... even though your a dick, your my kind of dick

We miss your jib and spec-ops beard out west.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Post a review on youtube? lol

No, even more horrific and unbelievable than that.

A Systema gearbox. In an FCC 416. Dread. Truly, dread.

If you could have been over at my place with Jonas when we did the other assembly stuff, you would have been shocked. Those pics are not part of this thread.

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

Joseph, that crud is not rust, just some lubricant of some sort.

That lubricant looks like some kind of petrochemical / oil. I would recommend you massage that out and put in something proper.

Originally Posted by mcguyver

No, even more horrific and unbelievable than that.

A Systema gearbox. In an FCC 416. Dread. Truly, dread.

I am surprised that you didnt just do that already considering how many new guns you mcguyvered together last week. Give me a ring if you are going to order a new gearbox, I'm also looking for a boneyard box to restore for my 3rd PTW if I end up with a new gearbox from factory i'm just as happy.

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Someone in wpg is getting an FCC mechbox (hopefully before september), I'm gonna see if I can take a peek at it and see if it has the same gear lash issue.

I would be interested to find out if they put the axle/bearing slots in the gearbox shell in the right place or if their gears are off-spec or supposed to be large due to the placement difference in those holes. Do you have the tools to take those measurements?

[Tex]

The actions by FCC here has only cost them sales. I get that Canada is a small market but having a good rep in a small market is better than not. If you are not going to care about the smaller markets stay out of them.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Azathoth

That lubricant looks like some kind of petrochemical / oil. I would recommend you massage that out and put in something proper.

A proper grease would certainly be better than what they have now. It wouldn't stop the extreme wear on the gears, but it would make it alot more quiet.

I am surprised that you didnt just do that already considering how many new guns you mcguyvered together last week. Give me a ring if you are going to order a new gearbox, I'm also looking for a boneyard box to restore for my 3rd PTW if I end up with a new gearbox from factory i'm just as happy.

I have alot of irons in the fire, as it were. Last thing I want to do or should be doing is pumping money into a $3000 gun, especially when they advertise warranty. But I guess covering your butt so you aren't left with a $3000 pile of parts is most prudent.

I would be interested to find out if they put the axle/bearing slots in the gearbox shell in the right place or if their gears are off-spec or supposed to be large due to the placement difference in those holes. Do you have the tools to take those measurements?

There is alot of play in the geartrain. When you hold the bevel gear solid, you can feel it all the way through. Every time the sector gear impacts the piston rack to start the decompression cycle of the cylinder, a shock will travel all the way up the gear train. More than anything, that impact is what is going cause the damage.

The bearing and axle holes may be out too, but that would just make an existing problem worse.

[DMB90]

Thank you so much for this review. I have just pulled 12 buffer tube cap shims out of my 416 and followed your recommendation to do one more thread.

Before I saw your review I had actually contacted FCC support about gun misfiring and the first thing they suggested was to buy and install more of those guskets :-)

[quote=mcguyver;1797196]Update, June 9/13

Well, I got to play around with the Velocity cylinder this weekend. It was originally shooting about 350 fps with a pretty wide deviation window from factory with an FCC M115 spring. The original spring that came with this cylinder and gun was the M160. I never bothered to chrono it as it is a waste of time and never will be used anyway.

I cleaned the factory silicone grease out of it a month ago and have gamed it a few times, putting about 2000 rounds through it. It was shooting 370 fps after I cleaned out the grease out of it in favour of Systema lithium cylinder grease. The fps increased to about 370 fps and the deviation window dropped to around 10 fps. As I moved this cylinder from gun to gun, I noticed that it just didn't feel like the nice, positive lock I have come to expect from years of Systema use and dozens upon dozens of cylinders. Even with the retensioning of the lock bearing, it was still a bit spongy. So, I decided to replace the spring guide with a Systema spring guide, and the difference was immense. The fps increased to 404 fps with a deviation window of 4 fps.

Well, looky here, if it isn't the same useless buffer cap that I found in my 416. It would appear that there was in fact more than one of these manufactured and they were most certainly installed at the factory. Even more to this was the fact that the shimming of this buffer cap was out of control:



Note the number of shims on the cap, they take up a third of it. I was a tad flabbergasted when I pulled 8 of them off my 416, and that was a record until this gun came into my hands. Please count them for me:



Yes, there were 12 shims, that has got to be a record. The solution to this was simple, turn the buffer in once more and eliminate all the shims. The EZ-pull pins on the body are tight, but guess what, they are tight even without a cylinder in the gun.

[SuperHog]

Maybe that was assembled by a new employee with no clue.

[ThunderCactus]

more FCC issues, loose tolerances on the receiver, particularly the motor mount hole which was made oversize and now allows for side to side slop.
need a shim inside the hole to secure the motor in place so I can shim the height properly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhP2Y...ature=youtu.be

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

more FCC issues, loose tolerances on the receiver, particularly the motor mount hole which was made oversize and now allows for side to side slop.
need a shim inside the hole to secure the motor in place so I can shim the height properly

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10153818880655720

I have seen this so often to be ridiculous. I touched on that a bit earlier in this thread. Just ditch that motor, stop wasting money on their garbage.

Go FCC, worst company in airsoft.

It would be better for all if they just stopped and went back to video games.

[Ricochet]

I'm disappointed. As a long time Systema user, I had hoped that FCC would correct the few flaws Systema had by engineering more towards airsoft than training. Really all they have done is provided a CNC receiver, a fail in the motor and other areas, and an overly high price tag.

[ThunderCactus]

So after a few hours of tweaking and fixing

It's a $4500 FCC race rifle, and also a fucking joke.
My buddy bought it for $1000 and he STILL OVERPAID.

The bolt catch is loose between the posts, so a .5mm shim needed to be inserted with it. While loose it would rock so far that the mags couldn't activate the bolt catch button.

The motor had blown the UPPER bearing, and was on it's way to blowing the lower as well.

His initial problem was the motor simply screeched yesterday when he tried the cylinder I had regreased for him. As shown in the video the motor hole was cut 1mm too large and not only allowed for side to side slop, but it's also cut 1mm OUT OF CENTER. So it's even more difficult to get it to mesh properly. Ended up shimming the boss on the motor head and raising the pinion as far up as safely possibly and taking up enough of the play for it to be safe.

The bearing hole in the planetary gear cap for the sun bearing was too tight and compressing the bearing to failure. I ground about .003" out of the diameter and it was STILL too tight. used a bearing press to safely install the bearing and immediately upon install it the bearing was grinding.

However I can say one good thing about this particular FCC gearbox, the gear spacing was actually done properly. No excessive lash between gears and no accelerated wear. So at least they did ONE thing right.

Check the FCC hop chamber as well, they have a large diameter roller in there, glued down properly, pin isn't centered in the adjuster; it was sticking out the side a bit, they did a poor job of cutting the roller but he says the accuracy was good anyway.

So basically, $4500 rifle, needs a new lower receiver, 2 parts replaced in the gearbox, and a new motor.

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

However I can say one good thing about this particular FCC gearbox, the gear spacing was actually done properly. No excessive lash between gears and no accelerated wear. So at least they did ONE thing right.

Yeah, except the Systema gear box was already perfect, for lack of a better word. Lol. There are so many reports on this kind of thing. Think of it. These outlandish prices, and you'd be better of with a CTW, and I think those are a war crime. That's a little harsh, but in retrospect, even CTW had a decent gear box.