See through guns and the death of "airsoft"

[vatek]

Couldn't you just put something in your ad that states you don't do guntech work on certain brands?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Ratters

I still think the whole idea of airsoft is supposed to be fun, a little less on the serious might be in order. After all, we are hurling plastic at each other. ; )

It does not have to be easy.. lawless and without expectations of certain standards to be fun.

The game is fun.. No one is talking about "killing the fun"

What we are talking about is setting standards and enforcing them so everyone has fun.

I don't understand why things have to be reduced to the lowest standards to ensure inclusivness.

today the Money cost to get started is manageable for anyone.. so there is no choices or sacfifices necessary to get in to the game.. it can be done on a lark...
If it's a lark you are much less likely to care what the perceptions of the other people participating are.. your "mind set" may be " who cares? I'm just here for some fun" and you may not have any concern for the fact that your brand of fun is contrary to others.. or even the majority.

It does not take many KTMTs to spoil the fun for so called "serious" players ( who are having fun as well by the way)

[Amos]

Originally Posted by vatek

Couldn't you just put something in your ad that states you don't do guntech work on certain brands?

I do work on all brands though... I just don't do shoddy work with low-end parts.

If I upgrade / repair a gun my way.. I'll most likely never see that person's gun again unless it's routine maintenance, more upgrades or a new gun.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by .JET

Who in Montreal would do this? I would absolutely love to do it, but I'm not exactly old or have much Airsoft experience. How many reel steel rules apply to airsoft anyways? Apart for movement, gun/trigger and breath control, there's not much really.

I know someone is trying to open a field IN Montreal (not its outskirts), so that could help loads.

Greylocks, Bruce and I'm sure there are a bunch more. some sort of qualification is indeed needed now especially with the whole influx of new players I can't even begin to count how many times I have been shot by new players for mercy killing them, eventhough they are 2 feet away from me.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Greylocks, Bruce and I'm sure there are a bunch more. some sort of qualification is indeed needed now especially with the whole influx of new players I can't even begin to count how many times I have been shot by new players for mercy killing them, eventhough they are 2 feet away from me.

Lets not open the "mercy debate" This is why I don'y mercy anyone .. they get shot.. or knifed.. no one has turned on me when I put a simknife to their throats.

[m102404]

Let's face it...there's no way to really force it (it being the existence of a high standard of play/player/conduct/knowledge/initiative/etc). The best effort that can be made is to either:
1. Put the message out so consistently pervasive that new guys bump into it so much/often that they're just convinced it's the way it is...and they either do it or leave

2. Make the trappings (i.e. games/events) so attractive that new guys WANT to do it...and they either will or they'll leave.

The trappings of getting AV'd in the past was simply "GIVE ME ACCESS TO THE GUNS!!!!". Where to get 'em, what's available, etc.... Well, that's gone now. Being AV'd for the new guy is pretty much meaningless...it holds no value. (ok...you can still get to good stuff...but for the new guy that just wants to get something to see what it's all about...they don't NEED it).

(this might not work...I'm just spouting off)

Every venue should have a regular Noob day. Cater to those coddling needs (i.e. provide food/drink, explicit directions on how to get there, rentals/samples/loaners/etc...)...you want to get the new guys out there. Have a concise specific message to get across. Be the one asshole there harping on safety.... Arm-twist, bribe, extort, guilt some seasoned guys to come out (and have them bring their goodies with them)...to answer questions, show what's what and to mix it up a bit. Everyone can bond and hold hands.

The priviledge of posting to this forum and accessing more than the Stickies, FAQs and Games section should be determined by some other way. Probably tied to actual field attendance/conduct.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Lets not open the "mercy debate" This is why I don'y mercy anyone .. they get shot.. or knifed.. no one has turned on me when I put a simknife to their throats.

calling out mercy is a little wimpy but sometimes they are just too close for joy especially when you're loaded up to the tits with mags like me, I rather go the "bang you're dead" routine or if I feel like an ass then a butt shot as for the simknife, never did like em since Wil at SD unit poked me with one.

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Lets not open the "mercy debate" This is why I don'y mercy anyone .. they get shot.. or knifed.. no one has turned on me when I put a simknife to their throats.

+1 My guns don't shoot over 350, therefore I shoot at any distance, in semi for close range outdoors.

I have rarely had a mercy work out, either for me or them, and therefore a shot to the leg/chest is hard to dispute.

[dpvu]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

G&G used to be the bastard child of airsoft guns. Their quality between ICS, G&P, Marui would leave them in a distant 4th place everytime. But it's all good now because the receiver is clear, and the other brands are no longer available?

How many milsims are well attended in Calgary anymore? How many has Gish cancelled due to lack of attendance? With more available guns, attendance should increase, right? How come a serious milsim like Op Cold Front gets 60 players from across Canada, yet 200 can show up to a Battlefield game?

The changing attitudes amongst players new and old has been directly as a result of the changing marketplace for hardware. Anyone who thinks this isn't so isn't rational.

Milsim in the Calgary area has been in decline even before the clearsoft stuff came to market. I acknowledge it is a factor in the sense that there's older guys leaving the game and being replaced by new players without the gear or desire to play milsim. The alternative, however, is people leaving the game with almost no new players coming into the game at all. In my first year, I was one of the only new players attending JOC outdoor games and playing milsim but there are many more now that airsoft has become more accessible. If you take the time to talk to the new players, a decent amount are serious about the sport, acquiring gear and playing milsim (not just skirms).

I realize what separates us airsofters from say paintball is the milsim aspect of the game. However, I still think you have to ease people into the sport and it has to be accessible to a more casual crowd as well. Milsim has a very steep learning curve. When I first came into airsoft, I loved milsims but they were also very difficult due to my inexperience. I'm not saying I didn't have fun (I always did), however, not everyone has the patience I did and not everyone is willing to fork over the amount of money I did.

[Capt. T/O]

Originally Posted by m102404

Every venue should have a regular Noob day. Cater to those coddling needs (i.e. provide food/drink, explicit directions on how to get there, rentals/samples/loaners/etc...)...you want to get the new guys out there. Have a concise specific message to get across. Be the one asshole there harping on safety.... Arm-twist, bribe, extort, guilt some seasoned guys to come out (and have them bring their goodies with them)...to answer questions, show what's what and to mix it up a bit. Everyone can bond and hold hands..

ETRU holds a Noob day several times a year in Calgary.
A few vets and a lot of new players...
They learn the ropes, learn the different style of games, and the rules that go along with the game.
Kudos for ETRU for doing that.
JOC has been toying with the idea of a graduated system of play....
A player must have played X number of skirmishes before they can play minisims, and X number of minisims before they can play milsims.

This allows more seasoned vets the "pleasure" of not having to deal with new players spoiling a good milsim by not being prepared to play (ie, hicaps, no water, the usual stuff), while at the same time teaching newer players the various levels of preparedness required for the more involved games such as milsim.

Unfortunately, this idea has been detracted lately...

[Zilgorn_Zeypher]

Well here in SIR we let you play with us 3 times so we can get a feel for you. then we as a team have a vote and if we like the way you play and your general saftey ect we let you into the club and you can play with us as much as you want if we vote no you don't ever play with us again. It allows us to keep our players quality high

[Scarecrow]

Back when I started with Wolfpack (2003) the community was smaller, harder core and team oriented. When you came to an airsoft game you were watched and if you showed potential you were either approached for a team, or, you saught to join a team. There was a firm mentoring system in place and teams took care of basic gameplay and sportsmanship education and also created a player accountability framework. If you stepped out of line you and your team command structure was accountable. This created a system of competition and most games in my earlier days listed team names attending, not individual players.

This system is now gone, or is so diluted, its relegated to irrelevance. My interest in airsoft as a game has dropped substantially as well because of this. I've thought of doing a Trifecta series of games, but I can't seem to find the right field to host it at, nor have I been able to motivate myself to move it forward - everytime I start, something 'more important' comes up. Kinda sucks.

We'll see. I may be opening a field next year if I can get motivated, I've got several land options. The Plantation fiasco really took the wind out of my sails though.

[.JET]

There should be some kind of system that we could create that would basically entail that players would have to go through basic airsoft training, which some people would voluntarily sponsor or teach in all over Canada, kinda like reps in each province that ASC would "certify" as Staff Sergeants of sorts.

It's a big project, but it could definitely pay off on the long run.

I really wish I was around in 2003, that sure sounds like shit went beautifully back then, Scarecrow.

[Able1]

I Agree like caps.

call it like a Gold Seal which will let us know who is safety oriented.
something like that, I am all in for this if it will help this community in the long run hell ill go through it myself.

[hattrick]

I never liked any of you guys to begin with so, this is GREAT news for me