Looking for a good machinist!

IRONSIGHT · March 26th, 2011, 14:52

There may be another, possibly easier way to build the part. I got the idea today while looking into my VFC. The 2 ears that bolt into the upper are actually separate peices that are "T" shaped and go though the #27 from the rear. I believe they are made of a folded piece of spring steel. I'm not a machinist, but would this not make the process a little easier and possibly more durable?Not necessarily using the VFC parts as the rear of the T is very thin, but a heavier version of the same idea. Also if one or both did break, you would not have to replace the whole thing, only the ears. For the record, a lot of the external parts on the WE are compatible with th VFC AEG, with the exception of the upper & lower receivers.

Here's the pics: The VFC on the left.

The VFC installed in the WE:

megabeers · March 26th, 2011, 17:32

bulkheads for the f22 raptor are cold forged using a 50 ton forge press. its amazing.

ThunderCactus · March 27th, 2011, 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMax

ThunderCactus: I just got in a used Matsuura mill. Fairly old at 1996, but man this thing built like Tiger tank. I wish I could run other jobs on it, but it's tied up on a contract. We're running it 24hrs on a custom bar feeder and the spindle is spinning about 85% of the time and cutting about 65% of the time at 6000rpm. Bearing assembly doesn't even get warm. I love the high end used equipment market.

FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
Old nothing, I WISH I could get a 30-40yr old lathe built in the czech republic. Those things are TANKS.
We had a REALLY nice TOS lathe back in college, bit of an oddity really. 6" chuck, 6ft bed and heavy duty tailstock. The headstock was about 16"x16"x 30" long. It was just 2 sets of bearing with a large hollow shaft, belt driven from the transmission that was in the base of the machine. 10hp motor driving what seemed to be a vehicle transmission with a rotary dial style gear selector. The gearbox for the feed was where it usually is under, but just infront of the headstock.
It had a mechanical brake (the best system IMO), feed direction change lever on the saddle and headstock, adjustable friction clutch on the saddle, the whole machine was a single piece casting and INCREDIBLY accurate. I just found it strange it was a belt drive to the head and a 6" chuck for a 10hp machine.

The best part is that because it was so big and didn't look as simple to operate as the other machines, most students never touched it

Now I'm rocking a P.O.S. nardini 4pc casting brazilian lathe with no friction stops, a broken power lever forcing us to turn it on and off via the emergency stop, and active braking on the motor that stops working when the motor gets to running temperature.

EDIT; found pics!
it's a TOS trencin SV18, the college had repainted it all in a nice dark grey and it was really clean lol
http://www.support-business.com/imgp/103098.jpg
http://www.exapro.com/product/2009/1...-pe73575_2.jpg

These last two are the exact proportion of the one we had, but without the dial shifter for the transmission
http://www.kelders-boxmeer.com/uploa...al/KB-1854.jpg
http://www.kelders-boxmeer.com/uploa...l/KB-1854c.jpg

vondnik · March 28th, 2011, 13:00

The best lathe i ever worked with is an italian grasiano. They have stopped making them about 15 years ago and still when one showes up on the used market they usualy sell for 15k and up within a few hours. These thing are incredible and in 20 years as a machinis cnv and comventionnal i have yet to find or work on somethimg tjat can come even clpse to the precision and quality of those lathes. Granted they are not tanks for ruffing but they outclass anything new or old

deadlydayne · March 29th, 2011, 23:10

Mad Max, so what program do you use for your CNC's? you run a cad/cam or one or the other?

ThunderCactus · March 30th, 2011, 04:36

I know you didn't ask me specifically

but we run gibbscam 2010 with volumill and 2.5D milling at work.
Allows us to use solidworks models and because of volumill, it actually provides powerful, time efficient roughing cycles. Youtube it, volumill kicks ass when you get it working lol
But I don't use it for anything else, the regular fast programmed roughing cycles generated by gibbscam and pretty well all other cam software out there are that of a level 1 machinist.
I still program 99% of our parts in G-code right on the machine, it's not necessarily as fast as cam for programming time, but significantly more efficient in cut, easier on the tools, easier on the machine, and way easier to modify/tweak.

deadlydayne · March 30th, 2011, 04:55

hmm... pretty schnazzy. Im askin because i just recieved a call from a company sellin a cad/cam program called Bobcad? never heard of before, anyways tried it and cant figure out for the life of me how to operate that thing. So i just went back to mastercam, I run MasterCam v9, on both fadals and a 1980's journeyman "tree"

as for g-coding, ya i know what ya mean. Quite a few times had to go back and change something Mastercam cant seem to get right, Like my Fadal 4020 will accept some g codes that mastercam writes and my Fadal 2216 wont? im like wtf? so i gotta go in change it and have all kinds of fun with g.

ThunderCactus · March 30th, 2011, 06:35

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Good call on abandoning it, bobcad is well known as the broken jpeg of software. Nobody uses it, it's just freakin terrible! Your actually better off doing straight G-code.

As for your cam issues, you probably just need different posts for the machines. Sometimes software variances in the same brand of machine require different posts.

I'd have to say the downside to volumill is you can't modify crap outside of gibbscam. The parts you use it on are generally fairly complex and require multiple step downs. This equates to anywhere from 2000-12000 lines of code on even smaller parts lol

I'll have to get some videos of some stuff I machine on youtube again... All I've got on there right now is me machining POM on the lathe and using the FARO arm lol

deadlydayne · March 30th, 2011, 06:58

12000 lines good lord, i think the biggest i run is at 18,500 and thats a transmission for a 1/5th scale rc car with 3d milling in it

MadMax · March 30th, 2011, 19:28

I've been designing with SolidWorks but no CAM. Most of our CNC work is fairly simple production work (not much 3d). Not too many lines of code, but we can run stuff which is well optimized. We've got too many weird operations with difficult tools. Carbide boring bars running at nearly the maximum practical length. Our roughing cycles are a lot of trial and error sadly.

I have used CamWorks though. It seems to plug into SolidWorks quite nicely, but it's got a steep learning curve to managing the tool crib. You can certainly make a mess of things easily.

ThunderCactus · March 31st, 2011, 04:18

We stick to simplistic tools, and Sandvik, being the truly godlike company they are, offer all their tools in pre-made solidwork files online for free. So far they haven't been compatible with gibbs, but I know they can be made to work in gibbs. But we just make the tools as we use them right now, but we've only used it for 4 or 5 parts since we got it in december. Not much complex stuff to do...

Gibbs also has it's own solidworking if you get the 2.5milling, otherwise your working in wireframe. But you can model parts in gibbs pretty quickly as long as they're not super complicated.

deadlydayne · April 1st, 2011, 06:36

Alrighty boys here it is, the very first prototype! keep in mind it is the first, so i skipped out on the deburring and pretty finish milling, this was just basics to get measurments down and adjust the program. so some things are still off :-) when milling the two ears sprung outwards, so just to get them in the gun so i could test fire it. Let me tell ya i had to mill them down thinner than normal because i couldnt bend them, so i think it should hold and if it holds with these thin ears then problem solved when it goes to production, anyways onto pics

dutchydoc · April 1st, 2011, 06:50

Nice work my man, dont need the part; but I can appreciate the time, effort and skill!

deadlydayne · April 1st, 2011, 07:00

ha thanks dutch, was programmin all week at work and took me all night to make the first proto, lots to change and upgrade on it, but it should hold 110% better than that pot metal crap they had on. i thought about buyin the real steel part and modifying to fit but those were like $200 a pop!

dutchydoc · April 1st, 2011, 07:07

It is always nice to watch an idea take shape from a chunk of raw material.
Looks good, and I have no doubt it will beat the pot metal..lol.

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March 26th, 2011, 14:52	#91
IRONSIGHT Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mount Albert (North of Toronto)	There may be another, possibly easier way to build the part. I got the idea today while looking into my VFC. The 2 ears that bolt into the upper are actually separate peices that are "T" shaped and go though the #27 from the rear. I believe they are made of a folded piece of spring steel. I'm not a machinist, but would this not make the process a little easier and possibly more durable?Not necessarily using the VFC parts as the rear of the T is very thin, but a heavier version of the same idea. Also if one or both did break, you would not have to replace the whole thing, only the ears. For the record, a lot of the external parts on the WE are compatible with th VFC AEG, with the exception of the upper & lower receivers. Here's the pics: The VFC on the left. The VFC installed in the WE: Last edited by IRONSIGHT; March 26th, 2011 at 18:22..

March 28th, 2011, 13:00	#94
vondnik Ban-Fu Sifu Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Socialist republic of Kebekistan	The best lathe i ever worked with is an italian grasiano. They have stopped making them about 15 years ago and still when one showes up on the used market they usualy sell for 15k and up within a few hours. These thing are incredible and in 20 years as a machinis cnv and comventionnal i have yet to find or work on somethimg tjat can come even clpse to the precision and quality of those lathes. Granted they are not tanks for ruffing but they outclass anything new or old __________________ Vondnik, team Bad Karma, PQAC Murphy's second rule: Nothing is impossible for the man who does not have to do it himself.

March 30th, 2011, 06:35	#98
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Good call on abandoning it, bobcad is well known as the broken jpeg of software. Nobody uses it, it's just freakin terrible! Your actually better off doing straight G-code. As for your cam issues, you probably just need different posts for the machines. Sometimes software variances in the same brand of machine require different posts. I'd have to say the downside to volumill is you can't modify crap outside of gibbscam. The parts you use it on are generally fairly complex and require multiple step downs. This equates to anywhere from 2000-12000 lines of code on even smaller parts lol I'll have to get some videos of some stuff I machine on youtube again... All I've got on there right now is me machining POM on the lathe and using the FARO arm lol Last edited by ThunderCactus; March 30th, 2011 at 06:37..

March 26th, 2011, 17:32	#92
megabeers Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Peterborough, Ontario	bulkheads for the f22 raptor are cold forged using a 50 ton forge press. its amazing.

March 29th, 2011, 23:10	#95
deadlydayne Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Michigan, USA	Mad Max, so what program do you use for your CNC's? you run a cad/cam or one or the other?

March 30th, 2011, 04:36	#96
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	I know you didn't ask me specifically but we run gibbscam 2010 with volumill and 2.5D milling at work. Allows us to use solidworks models and because of volumill, it actually provides powerful, time efficient roughing cycles. Youtube it, volumill kicks ass when you get it working lol But I don't use it for anything else, the regular fast programmed roughing cycles generated by gibbscam and pretty well all other cam software out there are that of a level 1 machinist. I still program 99% of our parts in G-code right on the machine, it's not necessarily as fast as cam for programming time, but significantly more efficient in cut, easier on the tools, easier on the machine, and way easier to modify/tweak.

March 30th, 2011, 04:55	#97
deadlydayne Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Michigan, USA	hmm... pretty schnazzy. Im askin because i just recieved a call from a company sellin a cad/cam program called Bobcad? never heard of before, anyways tried it and cant figure out for the life of me how to operate that thing. So i just went back to mastercam, I run MasterCam v9, on both fadals and a 1980's journeyman "tree" as for g-coding, ya i know what ya mean. Quite a few times had to go back and change something Mastercam cant seem to get right, Like my Fadal 4020 will accept some g codes that mastercam writes and my Fadal 2216 wont? im like wtf? so i gotta go in change it and have all kinds of fun with g.

March 30th, 2011, 06:58	#99
deadlydayne Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Michigan, USA	12000 lines good lord, i think the biggest i run is at 18,500 and thats a transmission for a 1/5th scale rc car with 3d milling in it

March 30th, 2011, 19:28	#100
MadMax Delierious Designer of Dastardly Detonations Trader rating Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: in the dark recesses of some metal chip filled machine shop	I've been designing with SolidWorks but no CAM. Most of our CNC work is fairly simple production work (not much 3d). Not too many lines of code, but we can run stuff which is well optimized. We've got too many weird operations with difficult tools. Carbide boring bars running at nearly the maximum practical length. Our roughing cycles are a lot of trial and error sadly. I have used CamWorks though. It seems to plug into SolidWorks quite nicely, but it's got a steep learning curve to managing the tool crib. You can certainly make a mess of things easily. __________________ Want nearly free GBB gas?

March 31st, 2011, 04:18	#101
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	We stick to simplistic tools, and Sandvik, being the truly godlike company they are, offer all their tools in pre-made solidwork files online for free. So far they haven't been compatible with gibbs, but I know they can be made to work in gibbs. But we just make the tools as we use them right now, but we've only used it for 4 or 5 parts since we got it in december. Not much complex stuff to do... Gibbs also has it's own solidworking if you get the 2.5milling, otherwise your working in wireframe. But you can model parts in gibbs pretty quickly as long as they're not super complicated.

April 1st, 2011, 06:36	#102
deadlydayne Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Michigan, USA	Alrighty boys here it is, the very first prototype! keep in mind it is the first, so i skipped out on the deburring and pretty finish milling, this was just basics to get measurments down and adjust the program. so some things are still off :-) when milling the two ears sprung outwards, so just to get them in the gun so i could test fire it. Let me tell ya i had to mill them down thinner than normal because i couldnt bend them, so i think it should hold and if it holds with these thin ears then problem solved when it goes to production, anyways onto pics

April 1st, 2011, 06:50	#103
dutchydoc Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ottawa	Nice work my man, dont need the part; but I can appreciate the time, effort and skill! __________________ "Born on a mountain and raised in a cave, killing and fucking is all that I crave"...

April 1st, 2011, 07:00	#104
deadlydayne Trader rating Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Michigan, USA	ha thanks dutch, was programmin all week at work and took me all night to make the first proto, lots to change and upgrade on it, but it should hold 110% better than that pot metal crap they had on. i thought about buyin the real steel part and modifying to fit but those were like $200 a pop!

April 1st, 2011, 07:07	#105
dutchydoc Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ottawa	It is always nice to watch an idea take shape from a chunk of raw material. Looks good, and I have no doubt it will beat the pot metal..lol. __________________ "Born on a mountain and raised in a cave, killing and fucking is all that I crave"...

Looking for a good machinist!

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