WIP: Upgrading Your Tokyo Marui Glock

[e-luder]

Here:

The Glock Thread!

Post your Pistol!

The 1911 Thread


Everyone in the Community have far better pistols than I do. Some of them I cater my builds to. Such good looking guns....

[drewroud]

Do you have any more pictures of the one with the tan frame / silver slide and can you list the specs? Its pretty sexy, I want to build up my we like that.

[e-luder]

[IMG][/IMG]

This is a fully upgraded Tokyo Marui Glock 17. Most of the TM bits have been taken out and replaced with good aftermarket upgrades.
Here's What's been done:

The slide assembley
-Guarder Dessert Storm aluminum slide polished to a mirror finish
-PGC aluminum outerbarrel custom fitted for the Guarder slide
-PDI 01 Tightbore Inner Barrel
-NineBall hop up bucking
-AIP Lightened muzzle housing
-Customized AIP Glo sights for Marui G17 (red)
-Guarder Enhanced loading muzzle
-Customized Firefly rocket valve
-Custom tuned Shooter's design recoil spring (150% strength) w/ steel recoil spring guide with custom made shock buffers installed

The Frame Assembly:
-Custom fitted Guarder Enhanced Tan frame
-GunsModify Extended Slide Catch
-GunsModify Extended Slide lock
-GunsModify Aluminum trigger w/ red safety trigger
-Guarder steel trigger bar
-Guarder Steel magazine catch
-AIP Steel hammer set w/ custom fitted hammer bearing
-Shooter's Design 150% strength mainspring
-Custom fitted Shooter's Design Steel Valve Knocker

Magazine:
-Shooter's design Glock logo baseplate
-Some sort of high flow blowoff valve (i forgot who made it)

Work done to the gun:

All these parts have been custom fitted by me to give the gun a smooth cycle. The slide has been sanded a pinch to fit the Guarder frame. The Firefly Rocket valve has been modified to increase the gas output to the BB by slimming down its "legs" and opening the intake holes. The slide has a lightened BBU to allow a fast return. The recoil spring has been custom fitted with some shock buffers to short stroke the pistol for a crispier cycle and better gas efficiency. The valve knocker has been modified so that it creates an efficient strike on the blowoff valve. All of the internal hammer parts have been polished to rid of any friction of moving parts. All moving parts have been greased for protection against wear. The underside of the slide has been sanded and polished to prevent friction and wearing on the outerbarrel. The magazine chamber has been widened a pinch to allow easier reloading whilst the installation of a magazine well. The hop up clamp has been tightened to produce a tight airseal in conjunction with the hop up bucking. The slide guide rails have been sanded for easier, nearly frictionless action of the slide.

This gun is tuned to shoot at 361-345FPS on 20's on a full tank of green gas/propane. There is a high-flo blowoff valve installed in the magazine.

[turok_t]

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by turok_t

[RacingManiac]

My Glock 17 many many moons ago..I don't have that slide, frame or TLR-1 left....

[drewroud]

Sorry for the late reply, I am super busy with school and sports.

I started to think about the enhanced return spring and I stumbled upon short stroking and shock buffers.

I have a list of questions.

1. What part of the slide / frame absorbs the impact of the frame coming forward? I am pretty sure that when the slide racks back, the spring absorbs the impact since without the rod in, the slide goes back further. The reason I ask why I that I wonder if a stronger spring would cause more wear and tear on specific parts.

2. DO Shock Buffers help absorb the impact of the motion of the slide? If not, what is the point of them.

3. If you use something soft to shortstroke the spring, like o rings, would this serve the same purpose as shock buffers?

4. What is the point of buying a stronger spring and short stroke it? Wouldnt the recoil be the same as a standard strength spring?

5. I cant visualize how the schock buffers affect the spring. Right now in my gun, the orings are placed so that the spring can fully compress, but If I add one more, it does not. Does the spring get fully compressed when I add more o rings?

I was troubleshooting one of my leaky army mags and I took off the top gasket. When I tried to put it back one, it would not seat properly with the magazine and it would sit about a half centimeter high. The rubber is on correctly. Even if I pressed it down SUPER HARD, it would not seat flush. Because of this, I broke the wholes in the plastic magazine gasket.

7. Can you explain why this happened and are there any replacements you recommend? The only one I have found is by building fire. Army mags suck.

So right now I have come to the conclusion that I need to either buy marui or we mags. We's have worked fine so far without any problems.

Ok

8. What parts need to be modified to have a full auto g17? Just thinking about it,for sure dont want it.

9. What is different in a glock 18c mechanism?

DO you have any pictures of the tan and silver glock 17 internals?

Do you have any pictures of shock buffers ? short stroke on glocks?

[e-luder]

1. What part of the slide / frame absorbs the impact of the frame coming forward? I am pretty sure that when the slide racks back, the spring absorbs the impact since without the rod in, the slide goes back further. The reason I ask why I that I wonder if a stronger spring would cause more wear and tear on specific parts.

The slide hits the chamber on your outerbarrel and the kinetic energy travels down towards your hop up unit and transfers to your lower assembly.

A stronger spring will always cause more stress on some parts of the gun as opposed to the weaker stock one. What you have to watch out for is the screw casing on the front the of the lower assembly. This is the first component that usually breaks on Marui glocks.

WE's frame seems sturdier than Marui's to be honest. But I can't say for sure that WE has addressed this flaw with their frame. Mine hasn't broken yet but I don't use it all that often to begin with.

There have also been reports of the WE outerbarrels breaking very easily. I've heard that the barrel splits in half or severs at the base of the chamber. But again I can't comment on this issue because I haven't ran into it personally.

DO Shock Buffers help absorb the impact of the motion of the slide? If not, what is the point of them.

Not forward but it will absorb the backward forces. You will feel less kick when the gun cycles compared to when there is no buffers installed.

You can't really avoid the kinetic energy of the slide moving forward. most of that energy is created on the slide itself , not the internals.

If you use something soft to shortstroke the spring, like o rings, would this serve the same purpose as shock buffers?

Theoretically yes. But because you are using soft materials like the o-ring, you would need many o-rings to take the same amount of force as a proper buffer would. That's why most buffers are made of hard rubber or soft plastic.

What is the point of buying a stronger spring and short stroke it? Wouldnt the recoil be the same as a standard strength spring?

This is mainly done to improve the rate of fire of the gun. This helps conserve your gas reservoir vastly since the slide will travel a shorter distance at a faster rate.

I cant visualize how the schock buffers affect the spring. Right now in my gun, the orings are placed so that the spring can fully compress, but If I add one more, it does not. Does the spring get fully compressed when I add more o rings?

When you add more buffers (in your case the oring), the spring will always be in a compressed state. Think about it. The nature of the spring is push out. When you put a buffer, you are keeping the spring from "springing out."

If your spring is a weak spring, the spring will fully compress. If you have something like a stiff 150% spring, it won't because the spring would be too powerful.

It also depends on the amount of coils and how stiff that the spring has. For example, The Shooter's Design spring has less coils and is shorter but is more stiff. Guarder's has more coils and is longer than Shooter's Design spring but is less stiff. Both of these springs are measured to 150% strength.

Remember that springs get harder to compress when they "coil up". So if you already made it so that the spring is already compressed (adding buffers) to begin with, it will be even harder for it to compress even further when the trigger is pulled.

I was troubleshooting one of my leaky army mags and I took off the top gasket. When I tried to put it back one, it would not seat properly with the magazine and it would sit about a half centimeter high. The rubber is on correctly. Even if I pressed it down SUPER HARD, it would not seat flush. Because of this, I broke the wholes in the plastic magazine gasket.

7. Can you explain why this happened and are there any replacements you recommend? The only one I have found is by building fire. Army mags suck.

I have to see what happened.

So right now I have come to the conclusion that I need to either buy marui or we mags.

That's what I've told you from the start. Marui's may be expensive but they still outlast most of the other TM based-Glock mags out on the market. In airsoft, you always get what you pay for.

8. What parts need to be modified to have a full auto g17? Just thinking about it,for sure dont want it.

Get a Glock 18c, rip out all of it's internals and custom fit it to your G17.

...Or you can just buy a Glock 18c.

What is different in a glock 18c mechanism?

The G18c has a totally different set of internal set up. The BBU and the loading muzzle internals, in its entirety, is different as it has to house the internal fire select function of the pistol. The hammer assembly is different because it has to accomodate the seperate full auto sear.

The trigger bar is different(G18c has a thicker trigger bar). The hammer housing is different (has different cuts and pins). The rear sight and mounting screw is different.
...and so on and so on.

You can't swap the internals of the two.
..nor the slide.

Do you have any pictures of shock buffers ? short stroke on glocks?

There's one I made from things I found around the house. Get resourceful!! Use everything in your household!!!

EDIT: You'll you've stroked the gun if the slide catch doesn't engage on empty. This is because the slide can't travel far enough since the buffers will be blocking its path.

[RacingManiac]

Probably a good place to ask this, whats the compatibility for the KJW G23 to the TM parts? I think time-wise the KJW came out after the TM G26 but before the TM G17. Does it have the G26 hop-up(which I believe is different to rest of the TM spec)? Can it use the inner barrel made for the rest of the TM GBB? What about nozzle/cylinder? I am assuming parts like hammer spring is compatible. Thus far I've only used the TM G17 sights on the KJW G23 and its drop in.

[p.phresh]

AFAIK, the KJW G23 is compatible with parts from the TM G17. however, I don't know from experience, but The TM G17 is based off its previous designs of the glock 26 and 26A, and the KJW G23 is based off of the G26 and G26A. The TM G17 is basically the G26A re-packaged.

And the TM inner barrel for all TM GBBs are the same. My glock inner barrel will fit my 1911 and vice versa. And i'm pretty sure the the hop unit is the same across all models (KJW/TM).

KJW G23


TM G26


TM G17

[RacingManiac]

TM Glock 26 is the only TM GBB that uses a different inner barrel cut and hopup AFAIK to the rest of the TM line. It was their first GBB with hop-up IIRC, and that design was altered slightly to become the current design.

[drewroud]

I did a few more mods on my upper assembly. First, I installed enough o rings so that the gun is shortstroked just by a mew millimeters. Now the slide does not go back far enough to get locked on the new trigger bar but still has enough clearance to get locked by the slide catch.

The second thing I did was add normal tape to the side of the bbu, because there was a slight wobble. Now there is no wobble and I tightened the rear sight screw.

Indoors, the gun was shooting pretty well. I took it outside today and it sucked. This is because it is pretty cold outside and the mags were freezing. I noticed that it started to shoot full auto, and since this is only because the bbu does not lock down the hammer, I checked the bbu once again. The area where the bearing hits the bbu is broken and the back of the nozzle is exposed. Also, the problem with the slide not going forward all the way and the hop up unit not working reoccurred.

I came back inside, lubed it, and made sure the mags were toasty and went back inside. My new mag seems to be working better, the slide locked back after all the bbs were gone. The hop up unit worked and the bbs flew straight except for when the gas started to run out.

Once again, the main problem seems to be that the nozzle fits tightly inside of the bucking. When I put silicone on the nozzle, it enters and leaves the nozzle very smoothly, but once the lube dries up, the same problems occur: the slide does not go forward all the way and therefore the hop up does not work.

Any advice? Tomorrow I will stop by a hardware store to pick up some new tools along with paint stripper so I can strip the paint off of my guide rod, barrel stop, and body pins.

[GP]

I've got the same problem of the nozle on g17 and hi-capa with Modify and 9ball hopup rubbers........

Mine was a problem related to the lube of the greengas I was used to usue.
After chance brand of gas all start to work good.

Now I use hopup rubber and nozle from Aip and all works great.

This is mine one, for the moment use abs slider but I mount a kit whit fixed barrel and light BBhousing
Here with 0,25 bb



the BB Housing is the one on the right



the inner of the slider compared with a stock marui

[e-luder]

Originally Posted by drewroud

I did a few more mods on my upper assembly. First, I installed enough o rings so that the gun is shortstroked just by a mew millimeters. Now the slide does not go back far enough to get locked on the new trigger bar but still has enough clearance to get locked by the slide catch.

The second thing I did was add normal tape to the side of the bbu, because there was a slight wobble. Now there is no wobble and I tightened the rear sight screw.

Indoors, the gun was shooting pretty well. I took it outside today and it sucked. This is because it is pretty cold outside and the mags were freezing. I noticed that it started to shoot full auto, and since this is only because the bbu does not lock down the hammer, I checked the bbu once again. The area where the bearing hits the bbu is broken and the back of the nozzle is exposed. Also, the problem with the slide not going forward all the way and the hop up unit not working reoccurred.

I came back inside, lubed it, and made sure the mags were toasty and went back inside. My new mag seems to be working better, the slide locked back after all the bbs were gone. The hop up unit worked and the bbs flew straight except for when the gas started to run out.

Once again, the main problem seems to be that the nozzle fits tightly inside of the bucking. When I put silicone on the nozzle, it enters and leaves the nozzle very smoothly, but once the lube dries up, the same problems occur: the slide does not go forward all the way and therefore the hop up does not work.

Any advice? Tomorrow I will stop by a hardware store to pick up some new tools along with paint stripper so I can strip the paint off of my guide rod, barrel stop, and body pins.

If your nozzle is too tight around bucking, try using a thinner material to the hop up modification you did. If IRC, you put a piece of plastic(?) which may be giving you more pressure than you actually need.

As I stated in the past, a stronger recoil spring should fix your slide issue. A stronger spring will give the slide return a higher velocity. Thus, it should force your loading muzzle into the bucking more effectively.

The side effect is that, depending on how stiff the recoil spring, it may end up short stroking your gun.

The other option is already suggested above. Buy a new and SOFTER hop up bucking.

did you chrono your gun yet? I'm curious to know what the power outage is on your gun.

[e-luder]

Here's a new report to add:

If I may Entertain you Mr. Hitman...

I'm afraid that the results are not too good. While some may argue against this, my testing and fitting yielded the following results: NOTHING FITS CORRECTLY!!!!!

These parts will fit into the Marui Glock but hinder the performance of the pistol greatly. The measurements on the WE parts are NOT 1:1 to Marui's (but what are these days!?).

-The WE loading muzzle is too "small" causing a severe hampering in gas efficiency. Often times, the gun will not cycle crisply nor will it even give a "sufficient" muzzle velocity. When I tested this set up (WE internals into a Marui BBU,Hammer assembly and hop up unit), the fluctuations in power outtage varied greatly and was hard to predict. At times, it went from one extreme of 275fps to the other extreme of 345fps in two shots. I suspect the temperature of the WE magazine has a large hand in the power outtage but the I also sense that the loading muzzle is causing most of the eratic behaviour.

-The WE Hop unit has a slight difference. It is missing the little tab that keeps the unit from "slipping off" when inside the outerbarrel. Marui Glock owners will recognize this tab. When one is seperating the hop up unit from the outer barrel, the tab will prevent it from freely dropping out. WE does not have this tab but Marui does. So when retrofitting the WE Hop up unit to the Marui outer barrel, it is uber tight. Mine had no play at all. This can be both a positive and a negative but regardless, you need a little bit of play for the outer barrel to tilt (for realism sake).

-You can't fit any Marui loading muzzle in to WE Glock because it is too large.The muzzle won't move back and fourth as it should. It will cause jams and wear out the gas route packing on the magazine. That is...if the slide can even cycle. You could modify it but you'll take away the integrity of an already high stress point of the gun.

-The WE hop up and bucking unit did not accomodate the Stock marui inner barrel accordingly. The bucking couldn't create enough backspin for the hop up to run properly.

-You can fit a Marui BBU in a WE slide but you'll get mixed results. There will be a lot of play between the lower and upper portions of the WE Glock resulting in poor and "uncontrolled fluctuations in power and gas efficiency. This misfiitting results in the dreaded "my mag is sitting too low syndrome so I need to push it up for better whatever whatever whatever..."

The Hammer assembly of the WE G18c is not to spec with a TM G18c. There was catastrophic failure in my tests wherein the semi sear didn't not even "activate". It wasn't that the slide was not getting enough blowback to keep the hammer down but the the sear wasn't actually aligning with the hammer lock at all. It was a strange diagnosis when I stumbled upon it. What made it worse was that because there was play room for the slide, the secondary full auto sear didn't release the hammer. SO i got a gun with a trigger pull but no shot....

The WE G18c also uses a rotary style hammer bearing like the G17. You won't be able to swap the WE Hammer to a Marui and use the Marui hammer bearing. It will cause problems during the cycle.

-The WE Outer barrel is a give and take. This is because it has to accomodate the locking tab found on the Marui Hop up Unit (the one mentioned above). You'll either have to modify the hop up or modify a slot on the WE outer barrel to accomodate the locking tab.

-As a minor note, the recoil springs of both guns degrade the quality of the blowback in both guns. Why this is I have no clue.....

I also tested some after market parts on the WE G17. The Guarder outer barrel doesn't fit 100%. It's uber tight. The AIP Steel hammer somewhat fixed some of the hammer issues but still has too much friction. The Guarder loading muzzle doesn't fit a WE Glock. A ninebal piston head is tight on the WE. You can imagine what it will do to the loading muzzle once the o-ring starts to expand when gas pressure is applied. lol.

Most aftermarket parts are catered to Marui specs. SO I suspect that some of them will cause problems on a WE Glock.

hope that helps.