City of Markham Ontario bans all replica firearm sales with new by-law 2012-196

[L473ncy]

Originally Posted by Spike

Our SUV convoy got lit up by paintballs on the way to Rhino II in the middle of buttfuck Irving Country at like 2300h..

Off topic, but am I the only one who thinks that would be a cool scenario to play out.

SUV convoy going to some location for a night op assault gets ambushed because of bad intel (say Nerf Rockets hit leading and trailing cars and block off exit for the rest of the SUV convoy) and you have to react to an unknown number of Op-For attacking the convoy. It might be cool to include into a larger 24 hour milsim where you have a large area that you can play that out in.

But other than that, definitely not cool when you're just cruising around.

[MADDOG]

Originally Posted by L473ncy

Off topic, but am I the only one who thinks that would be a cool scenario to play out.

SUV convoy going to some location for a night op assault gets ambushed because of bad intel (say Nerf Rockets hit leading and trailing cars) and you have to react to an unknown number of Op-For attacking the convoy. It might be cool to include into a larger 24 hour milsim where you have a large area that you can play that out in.

But other than that, definitely not cool when you're just cruising around.

We have done it several times at Ladytresses Udora field, it was great and more fun than I thought it would be..................and now we are officially thread derailed ):

[lurkingknight]

I believe a young woman was blinded for life here in ottawa when a retard 14 year old in a car unloaded a paintball gun in her face. I don't think airsoft or paintball is any different in regards to irresponsible use.

Minors should be monitored when in possession of them, both airsoft and paintball alike. Though unfortunately, airsoft seems to get more bad press when shit like this happens, even when you can find paintball guns that look like m4s. suzie soccermom can't tell the difference between a paintball gun, an airsoft gun or a real gun for that matter.

Hell even in the cgep shooting a few years back, the teens didn't think that retard's guns were real either.

[Jackals]

That was in 2003 I think Lurking and your right she was blinded for life by a drive by paintballing. It was really negative press at the time for airsoft and paintball alike.

I don't tend to agree with Brian often, but he is certainly right on this, at least partially. I don't think the community is so much a victom in this as we are complacient.

[HackD]

Originally Posted by GBBR

I really don't see why everyone is making such a big deal outta this.
NAME 1 GOOD RETAILER IN MARKHAM!
NAME ONE RETAILER IN MARKHAM THAT HAS GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE, GOOD PRICES, AND ALOT OF GUNS IN STOCK!

Originally Posted by BELObeatz

Who is buying airsoft off the shelves in P-Mall anyway?? Have you seen the prices?? The ban of sale is a good thing because if you are buying an airsoft gun at those locations you know nothing about the sport and are probably the idiot shooting squirrels and your friends at school.

Originally Posted by Jackals

EDIT: Is this a big deal for the majority of airsoft in Canada, maybe as it could set a dangerous precedent. Is it right now, not really.

All three of the above posters miss the point entirely. This isn't the first municipal government to take this approach. Brampton has a similar bylaw on it's books, just not publicized.

All municipalities take a look at what is trending in terms of enforcement issues, and tend to adopt similar bylaws for issues elsewhere, that are becoming issues in that municipality. A good example of this is motorcycles and noise pollution in recent years. Caledon had major issues with excessive noise on some of it's more scenic roads frequented by HD riders - noise level standards were adopted that targeted all potential offenders - whether the exhaust system was aftermarket or stock, and met Federal noise level standards. Road-side testing has become common. In fairly short order, Oakville, Burlington, and a few other municipalities enacted similar, if not word for word legislation to deal with this issue, that over-rode Federal standards on the municpal level.

The point? The Markham ban might not be affecting you now - but it very well could, very soon. It's NIMBYism on a Governmental level, pure and simple.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

What really concerns me.. is the fact that local governments seem to feel empowered to wipe away a person's livelyhood with the stroke of a pen and a show of hands.

There are people in this community that derive some and in cases all of their income from the sale of airsoft guns.

and if they happened to be conducting business in Markham.. their business is now Illegal.

I guess this is why so many firearm busineses are located in Alberta..

[Curo]

My main concern if this spreads. As Brian said some people make there lively hoods on this business. With Markham not really having much airsoft business (or atleast good businesses) this isn't really a big blow to our community (yet). What worries me is, will this spread? If this spreads than we have a problem, now it is just an annoyance.

[Danke]

Part two on this seems to be that since there are no local stores to shut this bylaw will have the desired result.

That will lead to escalation, not a repeal or rethink.

[Jimski]

just stock up on guns while they're affordable and then, back to being low profile.

is that gang thing a real argument or is this all about stupid assholes being dangerous?
how do gangs function in Canada? I thought it was a bunch of Russians,Greeks and bikers who really only swear by real steel arms ?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Hard to say if it will spread.. the unthinking teen is certainly not limited to Markham..

We had a bonehead walking down the street with a M4 on the way to TAC11 in Toronto.. Stupidity is not geographically isolated.

Seeing as there are a number of retailers in Toronto I would think that they would be keeping their finger on the pulse of city hall and would sound the alarm if this was on the horizon here in Toronto.

it's a hard sell though.. "public safety" seems to trump common sense at every turn.

what we need is someone to monitor GTA municipalities and sound the alarmif it dies come up so that a represenative of the reailers can get interveiner status at the session in which the bylaw is to be read.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Jimski

just stock up on guns while they're affordable and then, back to being low profile.

is that gang thing a real argument or is this all about stupid assholes being dangerous?
how do gangs function in Canada? I thought it was a bunch of Russians,Greeks and bikers who really only swear by real steel arms ?

often half ofthe guns shown in police "weapon captures" are not real guns.. so yes.. airsoft guns do fill a sizable niche in criminal culture.

If in most cases all you do is "show" your gun to get the desired result an airsoft gun will serve.. and obviously if you are busted with one on you.. firearm charges are not likley.. The crow is not likley to pursue weapons charges in the case of a "toy gun"

This issue is real.. and a problem... and compounded by stupid abuse of the use of airsoft guns by unthinking minors and teens

[Metalsynth]

So where do we go from here?

Basic tactics show that pre-empting leads to victory.

So why not apply this basic formula to this problem and take the problem where it should be taken?

Because we are divided so we fall.

[Trev140_0]

This sounds odd, but is there a way to get to the cops to ask them how we can help? They are obviously aware of ASC so perhaps there is a way of getting to them to ask what we can do?

When I opened our field, I called the cops twice and they were happy to hear we were proactive and updated the dispatch accordingly. As I mentioned a few times, one of them was even interested in the idea etc. Like "wow, cool way to spend a Sunday...carry on."

I am reaching here so the guys who want to take pot shots at an idea can piss off.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

I don't know.. there has been over the years several attempts to build a consensus and develop an association that may serve as a "official Face" for the responsible Airsoft owners.. but it never really got off the mark.

maybe the retailers need to form an association to protect their interests?

[Trev140_0]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

I don't know.. there has been over the years several attempts to build a consensus and develop an association that may serve as a "official Face" for the responsible Airsoft owners.. but it never really got off the mark.

maybe the retailers need to form an association to protect their interests?

Its like this.

They can be ahead of the curve or behind.

This is not something where asking permission after the fact will work.