What model are you working under?

[SnipersVenom]

sry for the swearing but reading this reminded me of this video, which is a perfect example of the F3 factor.

YouTube- Field eXpedients: WHAT WRONG LOOKS LIKE

[-Trooper-]

He might have an easier time if he actually did up his chest rig

[ThunderCactus]

FLC not done up, molle pouches not done up right
Clearly done just for gags, I mean NOBODY is that bad on purpose lol

[FOX_111]

He has 2 rigs on top of the other, go figure!

[whisper_kill]

Never the less, funny as hell.

[Hectic]

wow necro post lol

so ill ad to it

For assult i run a chest rig with a 3xdbl m4 mag pouch and a dbl m14 open top mag pouch hold m4 mags and m16vn mags nicely with a dbl 40mm pouch on top, hold smokes and a lighter nicely, also holds nade well when i run a launcher lol
also run the damin panel it holds my radio
have hacked it up a bit added alot of grimlocks to hold crap like cumpas maglight in an adfaped pouch for quick draw with a home made lanyard incase ya have to drop it in a hurry
also have a patroll pac holds extra whatever i need mostly 3rd line crap or a ghillie and or rain gear
a drop leg pistol holster with space for an extra mag
hydration

not sure what that loadout falls under what do you think?

for my sniper load i run a home made ghillie and a lil butt pac that i thro over my shoulder so i can flip it front to back as needed it holds 2 etra mags and a speed loader
hydration
dropleg

this is light slick and all i really need for a day of scrims, ill ad the patroll pac and some food and such for longer games

pardon my crappy spelling and lack of grammer

[Urrah!]

When I use my UPA getup, I must say, I am very PMC in my ways.

The UPA was dedicated to Ukraine's independence from the beginning of WW2 until the mid 50s. They specialized in guerilla warfare and used mostly captured weapons.

My kit goes like this: An Ak47 with an SKS strap (possible use in the fifties), Eastern bloc raindrop camouflage pants with leg wrappings, nothing special black combat boots, a black button shirt (has been washed often, so it's a bit faded), a scuffy black leather belt that has a variety of pouches and a canteen attached(goes over the shirt), a green German m43 cap, and a scuffy wooden dagger.

I just stuff my magazines into random pockets and don't plan on trusting other players on the field.

Hell, it's even more informal than an actual UPA getup.

[Kingsix]

Originally Posted by Urrah!

I just stuff my magazines into random pockets and don't plan on trusting other players on the field.

A Chi-Com AK-47 chestrig would make carrying magazines a breeze. It is also the cheapest and most effective way to carry them.

[Desmodus]

Originally Posted by Kingsix

A Chi-Com AK-47 chestrig would make carrying magazines a breeze. It is also the cheapest and most effective way to carry them.

+1 The chicom is amazing, highly recommend one as a light-weight, cost-effective and durable solution to carrying magazines.

[Dimitri]

Necro post I know, but Oborous is still around so thought I'd mention something, he could possibly reply to?

Originally Posted by Oborous

With the example above, how much are your troops going to actually understand tactics? How much ammo is each trooper carrying here? They'res logistic issues, so how long can you sustain the fight, can the commander plan for a sustained fight?

Originally Posted by Oborous

Because of Uncle stealing a goat 20 years ago, the two guys with the AKM's don't like each other, so they're not going to be a fire team... even though they use the same magazine.

I think you do not realize that irregulars are not there because they "want" to be there, generally there are there because they "must" be there. Things like family feuds tend to be forgotten till the common enemy is first removed from the picture.

Take for example the Balkan resistance armies that formed during the German/Italian/Bulgarian occupations of the region. People (like my grandfather) joined to protect and expel the invaders. In addition, there was more then one resistance army, and not being bound by contract or term of service, one would not have to stay if they did not wish to.

In addition, when your operating completely behind enemy lines, you have no logistical infrastructure other then what you can get due to your troops families and friends that sneak food and supplies to you. Generally, this means no guns, or ammunition, other then what you can take from the enemy, which means rationing of ammunition, and yes, using any firearm available.

If your lucky, allied supply drops that do not get intercepted might help, but they are inconsistent at best, at worst they can cost you more dearly to collect them then they are worth materially.

Sometimes that means that Joe will only have 50 rounds of ammunition for that pretty Bren gun that the British dropped to help, other times it might mean Joe will be carrying a K98 because that is the only thing that there is ammunition for.

This also means that the Enfields will not be put to use, even if it can rearm the entire unit with them, cause the Bren guns need to be fed outweighs the need for one standard firearm in the unit, as you don't know when the next successful drop will happen, as the Bren guns are of move tactical value to you then worrying about a common firearm for your unit.

The job as commander, isn't to mold your men, or plan for logistics, as much as instead its to keep your men alive for as long as possible while maximizing the amount of damage you cause your enemy. Its something that many parts of the World have had to deal with, and lots of first hand accounts of commanders are out there published now. But its not something that can be "planned" like a regular Army can do, Joe doesn't want to hear that he has to carry a Bren even though the ammunition has run dry cause "that is what your trained for".

Its a different mindset sure, but its not unworkable if your willing to forget the rule book for the time being.

Dimitri

[Cliffradical]

Thanks for the necro, this is a really good thread and I have no idea that it existed.

I'm looking into running a battle belt with suspenders.
I'm currently running a recce-style chest rig and while it suits me just fine, I would like to get as much weight off of my torso and onto my hips and legs as possible.

My question is; can I run both?
I like having my mags up front, and a small admin pouch, but I wouldn't mind dumping a 2x2 onto my left hip along with my pistol mags, and dumping my sidearm on my right.
Miscellaneous stuff plus a larger dump pouch will hang out around my rear, allowing me to get rid of my leg-drop dump pouch or rely on it less.

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

[Danke]

I ran a battle belt and a plate carrier no problems.

I put suspenders on the belt and I wasn't too happy. They were either too loose or too tight. I was better off without them.

I have a completely diffent rig now with the pistol on my body and a much lighter chest rig. Like a 20th century Chi-Com.

[Oborous]

Originally Posted by Dimitri

Necro post I know, but Oborous is still around so thought I'd mention something, he could possibly reply to?

I think you do not realize that irregulars are not there because they "want" to be there, generally there are there because they "must" be there. Things like family feuds tend to be forgotten till the common enemy is first removed from the picture.

In addition, when your operating completely behind enemy lines, you have no logistical infrastructure other then what you can get due to your troops families and friends that sneak food and supplies to you. Generally, this means no guns, or ammunition, other then what you can take from the enemy, which means rationing of ammunition, and yes, using any firearm available.

The job as commander, isn't to mold your men, or plan for logistics, as much as instead its to keep your men alive for as long as possible while maximizing the amount of damage you cause your enemy. Its something that many parts of the World have had to deal with, and lots of first hand accounts of commanders are out there published now. But its not something that can be "planned" like a regular Army can do, Joe doesn't want to hear that he has to carry a Bren even though the ammunition has run dry cause "that is what your trained for".

Its a different mindset sure, but its not unworkable if your willing to forget the rule book for the time being.

Dimitri

Hi! Yes, I'm still around. I'm trying to figure out the point of your post and how it applies to airsoft.

I structured this thread to discuss, in an abstraction because this is airsoft, some concepts of how the mission drives the requirements. Trying to apply this perfectly to partisan groups in real life combat expands beyond the intent and the abstraction breaks down, this was shaped to apply more to the concepts of airsoft. We do not have airsoft weapons that make two kilometer shots, we do not have effective indirect fire burst/area of effect weapons.

However, with respect to your post. I strongly disagree that because partisans are fighting a common enemy that all local history will be forgotten. There are examples of a member of a partisan team turning in the rest of the team to get vengance for a slight that happened before the invaders came, there are cases of partisan reserve groups not responding to move into position because of tribal or other issues.

Any partisan leader will make every effort to inflict maximum damage on the enemy and attempt to keep as many of his/her troopers alive. How would this not be planning, training, communications, and logistics? Many partisans look exactly like the locals, because they are locals, how can you tell a partisan is a partisan if they're not carrying any military gear or if they're just a local running away because there are explosions nearby? Many partisan attacks have very sophisticated planning, where there will be known locations to dump your gear so you can exflitrate, and then you can recover your weaponry at a later time. There will be logistics, as where do you hide after the attack, who do you hide with, so do you have information that collaborates with the people hiding you incase you/they are questioned?

Planning and Logistics for partisans are different than regular army, but does not remove the neccesity of them, not does it remove some commonality.

I am not a fan of much of modern, developed nations military planning, logistics, and training. Much of it is due to extended periods of peace, so you have make work projects that then become entrenched, because bored soldiers get into mischief. There is also a trend to add so much information gathering that sometimes the KISS solution has dramatic effects, look at What happened to this carrier group, I'd suggest doing some further reading on the whole Millennium Challenge 2002.

Basically, no Partisan force is voluntarily going to stay green, they are going to learn and add sophistication, as much as their environment allows. However, the having troops that 'must be there' rather than voluntarily be there does change things, this may or may not be good for the effectiveness of the force. If you move to attack the village of a significant portion of a partisan force, those partisans affected are highly likely to leave to defend their town, even against overwhelming odds, which creates the conditions for defeat in detail.

So, I guess I come back to 'could you please rephrase your question as it pertains to airsoft', if you would like to debate Partisans in real world conflicts, we could certainly create a topic in the Off-Topic area, or via PM's.

[Oborous]

Originally Posted by Cliffradical

I'm looking into running a battle belt with suspenders.

I'm currently running a recce-style chest rig and while it suits me just fine, I would like to get as much weight off of my torso and onto my hips and legs as possible.

My question is; can I run both?
I like having my mags up front, and a small admin pouch, but I wouldn't mind dumping a 2x2 onto my left hip along with my pistol mags, and dumping my sidearm on my right.
Miscellaneous stuff plus a larger dump pouch will hang out around my rear, allowing me to get rid of my leg-drop dump pouch or rely on it less.

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

There are options that would allow you to run both, your biggest issue is the choice of your suspenders, they need to be low profile so they don't dig into you or interfere with your chest rig. Like this as it's almost all elastic. These are only two point suspenders, I prefer four or six points. Dropzone does make a low profile four point suspender but their website is not updated.

I notice that you pluralize pistol mags, unless you're playing a pistol only game, how many mags have you gone through? I now carry one in pistol plus one more, a change since 2009's post, because I'll use the 2nd mag if something goes screwy with first, or if my primary goes down and I really want to get the opponent... I'll pull the pistol in one hand, and the spare in the other; fire off a few shots and then press the pressure relief button on the mag, yell 'Oh CRAP', odds are the opponent thinks both your guns just went down and when he comes up to get you, then you can shoot him.

But seriously, count how many times you have truly needed to switch pistol magazines? If you sometimes play Pistol Only games, then consider additional pouches like this, they weigh almost nothing and don't add bulk unless you're using them. Darren at OneShotTactical is the distributor for BFG in Canada.

As to the Dump Pouch, maybe consider something that is a toaster/lobster trap style like here. Put this at your left hip, up high on your belt, this allows you to run without a sack swinging and hitting you in the butt. Really, most dump pouches are actually modified for site explotation... you find intel documents and such, stuff them into the pouch. That is a good use of putting a folding 'dump pouch' on your butt, incase you find mission equipment.

I'd really suggest against carrying four rifle magazines on your belt, that's a fair amount of weight, and more importantly bulk. Try mounting them and then seeing how they work for squatting, lunging, dropping prone, log rolling while prone. I'd suggest the HSGI Taco for it's versitility, incase you're running different primaries/long arms, or other things that you can put in there. If you feel there are cases that you'll pull off your chest rig and only run with your belt, then mount BFG 10-speed pouches on top of the Tacos, basically no weight/bulk when not in use, but you can expand your loadout when you need.

I am a big fan of the 10-speed line for that expandability, you can set your gear up however you want, and if the game rules are such that you need to carry more ammo (i.e. no reloading on the field, only reloading at spawn), then you can easily carry more without changing your setup.

I am not a big fan of anything dropleg, unless you're SWAT or Sniper (not Scout/Sniper). I wish I saved the article, but there was a military kinesiology study that found putting 1 lb as a drop leg fatigued you approximately 1% faster. You can easily have seven lb on your legs, if you're running a drop leg dump pouch and a drop leg pistol holster, so for an eight hour game, you'll probably be dead tired 33 minutes faster than people with the same weight, but not as a drop leg loadout.

Oh, consider having a 10-speed pouch on your belt to easily slip your radio into if you take off your chest rig on a regular basis.

[Dimitri]

Originally Posted by Oborous

So, I guess I come back to 'could you please rephrase your question as it pertains to airsoft', if you would like to debate Partisans in real world conflicts, we could certainly create a topic in the Off-Topic area, or via PM's.

Actually I think we are more or less on the same page now that do expanded your thoughts on the issue. Your points on the other groups made perfect sense, just wanted some expansion/discussion it really.

As for airsoft, as long as the irregulars are not dressed too much like the "good guys", I do not think its much of a issue as in the real world. I could be mistaken though, if so I'd love to hear your views related to airsoft in specific.

After all, unlike in a real partisan army, the person taking the leadership role in a airsoft game, doesn't have to worry about having to set a example towards a member of his team cause he decided that goat was too important to his family history. Nor are logistical and planning concerns too bad (unless a team member shows up to a match with only one magazine, otherwise most guns all shoot 6mm anyways.)

PS. I love the reference to the Millennium Challenge by the way. Yes that was embarrassing, however it was not the first time, nor will it be the last.

Dimitri