Illegal Drug use during Airsoft Games

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Being complancent does not make it right. If the community agrees that such an action should be taken against an offender, is it then acceptable continue?

You allow drinking before and during events at your center. That's your perogative.... Personally, would not allow liquor on at any event that I host. Private property has with it a duty of care involving your guests safety.

Not allowing behavior with simulated firearms, the same as you would with actual firearms is a good place to start.

What's wrong with restricting the purchase of airsoft guns on this forum if you find someone is
#1, registered on this forum and purchasing guns here
#2, has been caught at one of your fields doing drugs.

I see no issue with trying to keep the sport clean.

And yes... THC will show up in a drug test. One part of my job is dealing with contaminated water and soil. I know that if the person who installs the well smokes and does not use gloves, the chemicals show up in the water analysis.

this issue is not the acts of the people involved.. this issue is does an on line forum have any place punishing behavior that did not happen on the forum?

The answer has to be no.

As soon as it takes up that mandate it then has a duty of care to administer the rules universally and completely otherwise it opens itself to claims of discrimination.

in short.. if you are going to accept the mantle of responsibility .. you wear it fully or not at all.

It is impossibe for this entity to serve as a fair and universal arbiter of player behavior and so it must stay out of it entirely.

[FOX_111]

The age verification systeme is not only a proof of majority, but a token of trust in regard to good reputation. At least, it's a little how I see it.

Now, ASC does not want to be perceived as a police, only as a medium of comunication. Or so I gathered over the years.

WE are the USERS of this medium, so WE should makes the rules.

So, in my opinion, regardless of the AV status of a player, if he is found in violation of an important field rule, such are drug use, cheating or whatever, he should be reported BY THE USERS, PUBLICLY, and BANNED from games. Simple as that. If his name get associated with distrust, his AV status mean absolutly nothing. All ASC could do then is branding them with a sub stitle, acording to the comunity wish. But that would be optionnal.

[Bezerker]

In my opinion, ASC already does enough for the airsoft community. Inforcing this kind of rule would be awfully difficult.

Everything would be hearsay. What kind of proof would you need? Witnesses? Would not hold up in court so it certainly should not hold up here.

If the fields and teams want to take a stand thats awesome, but to ask ASC to govern this is too much. The admins already have enough to deal with. This should be a local matter dealt by players between each other.

[Sharpe's Revenge]

What I would suggest is this:

AVs are already trusted by the community to use their judgement to verify that someone is of legal age and competent to use airsoft guns. One does not need to be ASC AV'd to play at a local game, but one DOES need to be AV'd to purchase airsoft guns on this forum.

I would say that if an AV in good standing is the one who reports that someone has been doing something dangerous on the field after repeated warnings (though for something like intoxication or violence I would suggest zero tollerance) then that AV should have the ability to revoke a member's verification, ragardless of who gave it to them initially.

We dont have to "punish" the member, but we can keep them from accessing the portions of this forum that are reserved for "mature" members of the community.

[uptheirons]

I smoke (quite casually I might add like instead of drinking after a long week I might smoke a joint with a few buddies as I don't drink) but would never smoke before/during/at a game or in the presence of those who dislike or cannot be around the drug or it's smell or what have you. Much like school or work for me I would never smoke there or before I got there and i've had tonnes of friends that do it's not hard to simply say no or i'm good. I certainly would not smoke on a persons private property (I find it rude to smoke in my own backyard lol). Drugs and firearms should only mix in videogames imo and also all people who smoke pot shouldn't be lumped together with all drug users/the ones that are irresponsible. I mean yes granted many will act the same but that's like saying all people who own replica firearms will commit crimes with them when only a very small number of those people actually will. The only thing pot makes every person who smokes it is...lazy haha. I am not defending those who smoke or do not smoke or saying it doesn't cloud a persons mind or anything because it does. I am just saying although it would be a very good idea to take away AV status of those who are irresponsible in the eyes of others for smoking I think it is something that should only be done if someone has directly violated a fields rules (ex no drugs before/during/after games but only on fields. Your own property on your own time is your business kind of thing or for those who have shown irresponsibility directly due to drugs ex handles airsoft in an unsafe manner poor judgment etc. If someone smokes pot in private to themselves who is being harmed, but themselves? also not every person who smokes marijuana becomes some raging, stealing, untrustworthy chronic although it does happen (but it happens to sober people too so...). Point in case if a person wants to do it let them but if they do it on your time, at your field, or under violation of your rules/regulations then I think, yes, action should be taken against a person. People will commit irresponsible acts regardless of if they are sober or not these things just seem to be done more by those who are not sober. It is the person not the drug itself who ultimately makes a decision to do something (not saying it won't effect a decision) but an irresponsible person who begins smoking pot will always be irresponsible regardless of if they're sober or not.

[safx]

Why is everyone always starting
threads asking the almighty ASC
machine to rescue them from
noobs, clear guns and everything
else they can't deal with.

You want something to change,
be the first in-line to start doing
what your asking for. You want
a booze and drug free place to
play— host yourself and enforce
your own rules. Simple.

[Kit]

Drugs in general are fucking retarded. Even worse when people use airsoft guns and under the influence..

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Kit

Drugs in general are fucking retarded. Even worse when people use airsoft guns and under the influence..

Hey.. thanks for that insight and your valuable contribution to the debate.

[pusangani]

Leave it to the field owner, things that happen at a game will be dealt with by the local community.

Are we going to revoke AV status because people don't call their hits?

what if they cheat the chrony?

what about if they hose other players after they've already called the hit?

what if they make inappropriate jokes?

what if they don't use deodorant?

what if they wear ladies' undergarments (and are male?)

what if what if?

it's not ASC's job to regulate that shit, it's up to the local communities, people know where that kinda stuff is tolerated (and sometimes encouraged) and they know where it is not, so it's no big deal.

Personally, I don't care if people want to burn the ganja before, during or after the game, don't bother me at all, I don't smoke, except cigs and I've never had an issue with a pot head being unsafe around me either, not to take anything away from those who have.

[Janus]

What you do on your own time is your business. I don't care if you smoke up or drink or whatever.

But I have enough respect for other players to not show up intoxicated (to any degree) to a game. I expect the same courtesy in return.

God help the person who breaks safety rules due to intoxication in my presence.

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by Kit

Drugs in general are fucking retarded.

Ya my Buckleys DM is fucken evil. Your use of "retarded" makes it obvious your outrage towards a natural plant outways your sympathy to the plight of the mentally challenged.

ok but seriously. I know people who smoke doobs like cigs and as was said, live their lives normally. I think it's a form of "self medication".

Like any mind altering substance people want to alter their minds from the reality of the shittyness of some aspect of life. Many animals do it just for fun too, not just humans. Alternate perceptions open the mind.

But personally, while I have no problem with fermented plants or dried ones that give you a buzz. I don't want someone with a 380fps bb gun shooting at me, the probability of injury is just going to be higher. (no pun intended)

Hosts will sort this out I think. That, and word of mouth like this thread creates discussion about it.

what if they wear ladies' undergarments (and are male?)

Hey now there were extenuating circumstances. And a very shocked motel maid.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

I am an age verifyer... if it suddenly becomes my job to report players behavior to ASC Central Command... and comply with directives to reovke AV status.. I'm done being a verifyer

Ill Say again... ASC has not interest in this issue and so NO Mandate to enforce anything.

There is no yeah but.. there is no argument

Kurgen started this public debate because he got the same snub from the AV private forum.
I'm not interested in getting involved in what seems to be a schoolyard tiff between the stoners and the Nerds in his end of the country.. sort it out.

ASC and the Age verifiers have already chimed in on this .. its a non starter.

[HGI]

safx,
That is awesome, so very true.
OMG THE SKY IS FALLING.


pusangani, those all sound like possible thread titles.

What if the player is on chemotherapy, dieing of cancer and just want to play a few games before they're dead? Ohh the possibilities.

[Sharpe's Revenge]

Originally Posted by Shrike

ok but seriously. I know people who smoke doobs like cigs and as was said, live their lives normally. I think it's a form of "self medication".

On a side note i hate this argument. People that take over the counter medications that zonk them out are NOT permitted to drive, use heavy machinery, or handle weapons while on said medication. I love my beer, but I would never jump behind the wheel after drinking, or go to work, or operate machinery, etc etc etc. Its not mature, nor professional to do so. When i see guys smoke a joint and them jump right behind the wheel it drives me NUTS. The effects it has on your body are NOT the same a ciggarette ( which I dont smoke either ) and no amount of pretending will make it so.

[Malice Army]

Originally Posted by Janus

What you do on your own time is your business. I don't care if you smoke up or drink or whatever.

But I have enough respect for other players to not show up intoxicated (to any degree) to a game. I expect the same courtesy in return.

God help the person who breaks safety rules due to intoxication in my presence.

Any safety violation is serious at anytime. And really what ARE you going to do?