Schedule Conflicts, or cutting each others Grass

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by ToRN

So, what you're saying, is that you don't want anyone to book a game at Wasaga, or FlagRaiders, on the same day as you have a game at TACCT.

TTAC3 operates on Tuesday Night.. Friday Night and Sunday night.. in the city of toronto.. Inside.. for CQB only ...I don't see a conflict.
That is a straw man Torn.. and a frivolous argument.. for the sake of argument.. and beneath you.. make a real point

What I am saying is I don't think it is constructive for us to plan to have a game at FR and FR old and a Wasaga on the same day.

Or at FR, Wasaga and EOTEC on the same day...

I agree that all venues do draw their own crowd but there is cross over..
If there was informal agreement to try to avoid scheduling conflicts then every host could get a maximization of attendance.
Which provides benefits to everyone.
Notwithstanding .. that very good games can be had with few attendeees.

Whereas scheduling conflicts does not profive benefits... that have any tangible effect.

[FNG]

Sometimes I masturbate with my left hand. Why??? Because it's different. Variety is the spice of life. Who cares if there are 60 or 16 at a game? I've done both and at each game I've had a great time.

In the last year (the time I've been playing). I've only seen one game cancelled due to lack of players. The reason I think was because it was in the winter.

Southern Ontario is rather large and has a diverse mix of players. Not every game will meet these players needs or desires. We in southern Ontario are blessed to have several excellent teams and hosts who put on regular games at several fields to meet these different personal requirements. I don't think we should be viewing it as a bad thing if you get low attendance at a certain event. It just means the people willing to commit to playing that day had something different in mind than what was offered at one place instead of another.

But what do I know? I'm just some guy who plays. I've never tried to host or organize a game. Untill I do I'll stop talking......er?....typing.......you know what I mean damn-it.....

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by FNG

Sometimes I masturbate with my left hand. Why??? Because it's different. Variety is the spice of life. Who cares if there are 60 or 16 at a game? I've done both and at each game I've had a great time.

In the last year (the time I've been playing). I've only seen one game cancelled due to lack of players. The reason I think was because it was in the winter.

Southern Ontario is rather large and has a diverse mix of players. Not every game will meet these players needs or desires. We in southern Ontario are blessed to have several excellent teams and hosts who put on regular games at several fields to meet these different personal requirements. I don't think we should be viewing it as a bad thing if you get low attendance at a certain event. It just means the people willing to commit to playing that day had something different in mind than what was offered at one place instead of another.

But what do I know? I'm just some guy who plays. I've never tried to host or organize a game. Untill I do I'll stop talking......er?....typing.......you know what I mean damn-it.....

No don't stop... we need more player input .. thank you

[thephenom]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

If there was informal agreement to try to avoid scheduling conflicts then every host could get a maximization of attendance.
Which provides benefits to everyone.

I can't say I've gone to the games hosted on ASC, but here's the way I see it.

A game doesn't need a large amount of players to be fun. A 30 vs 30 player game is played very differently than a 15 on 15 or 10 on 10. IMO, different people look for different type of games, some prefer 1 huge milsim, while others like having muliple fields like at Wasaga or FR. I personally like smaller games just because it feels more intense, and spend less time on the sideline after being shot. (At least that's how I feel when I go play paintball with a group of friends)

As long as turn-out rate is good enough to host a game (which the general feedbacks agree), I don't see a problem of one field having a big game and another having a small game.

[ToRN]

The example which you gave, of players at FR new, and FR old at the same time.

That is not by accident, in the two cases in which it has happened this year, it has been because one game had too many players for the one host to accomodate, so the new FR was opened up, for the overflow.

As for having games at FR and Wasaga at the same time, it comes down to player preference, also, I can't speak for everyone here, but I do speak for myself, when I say this. With gas prices the way they are, I don't want to drive 200km to go to wasaga, when I have FR right next door, and I'm sure the fella that live near wasaga will say the same.

[SKI]

Originally Posted by frankiet

I would personally like to thank Brian for the effort he has put in. I have attended my first game last Friday at TAC3, and from the way I see supplies dwindle (which he provides) as well as gear, I can pretty much confirm that this isn't exactly money boon. Being involved in the commercial building business, I can confirm that rent alone in Toronto would negate any revenue he pulls in from airsoft. I don't think that money is his motive here.

You forget that airsoft is secondary to his martial arts business. The overhead is split up between all Brian's business ventures in that building.
I have not attended a TTAC3 event. I have always wanted to try the place out but my schedule and lack of funds has not allowed me to do so. I have had to pick and choose where and when I can play. Playing with familiar faces and locations tends to win out in my situation. I don't want to risk dissapointment in trying a new location or host with my limited time. I play airsoft for fun. It's not a strict regimen that needs to be adhered like attending a Gym. Unfortunately when I look at TTAC3's website and see monthly membership dues it makes me think of a Gym. I know that there are pay as play fees as well. It's just something that lingers in the back of my head that I just can't get past.
I prefer milsim games. I tend to base my attendance on that. That being said, I tend to go with what I find familiar. The scenerio has to fit what I'm looking for in a game. I agree that hosting a bunch of games on the same day in the same local may be a bit much but people want variety. Thay want to be able to choose. If a game organizer decides to plan a game for the same day as another's, he's likely cutting his own attendance as well. That may not be the smartest thing to do on his part but it's his choice.

[Quaff]

TTAC3 memberships are there for the sole purpose of saving hardcore players' money. I only get to play there once a month if I am lucky because of distance and schedules, but if I lived around the corner I would be there all the time. The membership was made for people who want to play 3 times a week. If it costs $20 per game to play, that is 60 per week. If a one month "Membership" costs 60 bucks per month, that equals three weeks free.
I can assure you that Brian is not a money making machine. He will probably not like me saying this, but the last time I was there, he did not even charge me or my friend. AND he gave my buddy a free beer. Believe it or not, but my impression of Brian is that he is doing this because he loves airsoft and the comeraderie.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by SKI

You forget that airsoft is secondary to his martial arts business. The overhead is split up between all Brian's business ventures in that building.
I have not attended a TTAC3 event. I have always wanted to try the place out but my schedule and lack of funds has not allowed me to do so. I have had to pick and choose where and when I can play. Playing with familiar faces and locations tends to win out in my situation. I don't want to risk dissapointment in trying a new location or host with my limited time. I play airsoft for fun. It's not a strict regimen that needs to be adhered like attending a Gym. Unfortunately when I look at TTAC3's website and see monthly membership dues it makes me think of a Gym. I know that there are pay as play fees as well. It's just something that lingers in the back of my head that I just can't get past.
I prefer milsim games. I tend to base my attendance on that. That being said, I tend to go with what I find familiar. The scenerio has to fit what I'm looking for in a game. I agree that hosting a bunch of games on the same day in the same local may be a bit much but people want variety. Thay want to be able to choose. If a game organizer decides to plan a game for the same day as another's, he's likely cutting his own attendance as well. That may not be the smartest thing to do on his part but it's his choice.

Thanks for that... you are correct... airsoft is not the only revenue ... and really I do the airsoft stuff for selfish reasons... It is fun.. and it is fun to see others having fun.

What you say about going with what you find familliar really has resonance...

Everyone who has come out to EOTEC has liked the field.. and many have become regulars...
Getting people to risk it... and come out has been the challenge.. I have put a lot of the barriers up myself... making the field a invite only venue.. makes people wary
I guess it will take time... this is only our first season...

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by ToRN

The example which you gave, of players at FR new, and FR old at the same time.

That is not by accident, in the two cases in which it has happened this year, it has been because one game had too many players for the one host to accomodate, so the new FR was opened up, for the overflow.

As for having games at FR and Wasaga at the same time, it comes down to player preference, also, I can't speak for everyone here, but I do speak for myself, when I say this. With gas prices the way they are, I don't want to drive 200km to go to wasaga, when I have FR right next door, and I'm sure the fella that live near wasaga will say the same.

Ok now that is a valid point, thank you..

Proximity is a issue.. for some.. but really how often do most people play.. How many actualy play every weekend?

Sure some do.. heck I know guys who play 2 times a weekend if they can.

In the winter there are some guys who put in 12 hours a week a TTAC3.. but they are not the average player.

For the majority I think one local game a month is all they participate in anyway.

Lets not get things out or perspective.. I am not advocating less games.. all I am advocating is more thought in the scheduling of games.

[ATREYU]

Look Brian, not to "bust your balls" as you said elsewhere, but in all my time on ASC, you are the first to complain about this. As I said before, not many games get cancelled due to lack of attendance, but granted it does happen. Maybe if you attended more games at other sites, and met more players in person, you'd be in a better position to speak on other hosts games. And when I say attend, I don't mean in that annoymous, walk through 007 style and walk out again. Maybe if people got to meet you at other games, they'd warm up to you a bit more

[Kokanee]

Originally Posted by ATREYU

Look Brian, not to "bust your balls" as you said elsewhere, but in all my time on ASC, you are the first to complain about this. As I said before, not many games get cancelled due to lack of attendance, but granted it does happen. Maybe if you attended more games at other sites, and met more players in person, you'd be in a better position to speak on other hosts games. And when I say attend, I don't mean in that annoymous, walk through 007 style and walk out again. Maybe if people got to meet you at other games, they'd warm up to you a bit more

Valid points Alex, however this issue was bound to come up eventually - the amount of new field openings has been outpacing new players for a while now, seems like everyone with 20 spare acres fancies themselves a field owner these days.

We have a fairly healthy player base in Ottawa, with three fields, however what we saw early this season was one field falling into disuse with the majority of players as there were simply too many venues for too few players.

I'm not surprised that this happened first in TO, just that it took this long.

To play Devil's Advocate Brian, you seem to have an extremely hectic event schedule month to month, perhaps cutting back a bit in the frequency of your hosted games would increase player turnout?

As well, getting in touch with the other major field organizers and hashing things out could work - locally here in Ottawa we post our games well in advance, and have managed to hammer out a bit of a "gentleman's agreement" when it comes to scheduling to not divide the player base.

[ILLusion]

Brian's not the only host to voice this concern. I have seen this same argument voiced in the past.

The only difference is that in the past, the player base in southern Ontario (toronto region) was much smaller and the difference between TWO games would make or break a host's planning strategies.

Now that the player base is so huge, we can afford TWO games on the same day, given that one is a skirmish-based game and the other is a milsim. When a THIRD party shows up that encroaches on either one of those two gaming ideals, that is when further issues pop up and I do understand Brian's concerns with this issue.

In the end, it is up to the player to decide which game to attend, but as hosts, you all must come to some sort of executive decision to play nice with each other to help each other out.
As a host, you hold a further responsibility above the "regular player" and you must begin to assist your fellow hosts as well.

That's just my point of view and I hope that this discussion brings forth further compatibility and pre-planned gaming events that will accomodate all player bases across Canada.

[ATREYU]

This has gone beyond mole-hill --> mountain... I think we are on the scale of a new unseen planet here now. [Snap] Accept things as they are, because, if there's one thing I've learned about ASC - things resist (and rarely) change!!!

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by ATREYU

This has gone beyond mole-hill --> mountain... I think we are on the scale of a new unseen planet here now. [Snap] Accept things as they are, because, if there's one thing I've learned about ASC - things resist (and rarely) change!!!

Agreed... this has gone from.. hey guys look at the schedule before posting your game... lets help each other out a bit..3 games on the same day is a bit much...

To ... I don't know what...

Change has to be driven... by people who can.. Atreyu.. like it or not you are in a position to affect change if you want to, if you accept the responsibility that your position as a successful host places you in.

You .. and every other person who chooses to Host, could choose to work together ... or .. not

The people who can't affect change have to accept things as they are..You don't, you can change them.

Ok, one more time.

People will play where they want. If there's no game where they want to play, they won't play.

We've been here before. Over and over and over and over....the ASC Wheel of Pain....