Airsoft Picking up/Dying?

[Windows]

Originally Posted by Hectic

I bought my first pistol from Anderson & Anderson
KJW M9, like 600 bucks or something stupid like that, workhorse that damn thing still running strong lol

Wow, It's been so long since I've heard that name. Bought my First CA G36c from them. It's still my main machine.

[Okawesome]

I'll say that as a newb, I think airsoft is continuing to pick up. 7-8 years ago I got interested in airsoft and did the reading and research, and concluded that the cost and logistics barriers were too high for me. Even now, 8 years of income (and expenses) later, if things were still the way they were back then, it would be a non-starter for me.

Now there are several indoor fields to play at in Toronto and even a target shooting facility, retail stores and lots of great advice and knowledge built up from you 'old guard'. Not to mention the AV deals in the classifieds.

As communities get bigger, they diversify. That doesn't mean the sport is 'dying', it is growing. Among all the newbies and dilettantes, you're going to find a small group of individuals that goes at it hard, gets out to those long milsim events and advances / advocates for the community.

Myself - I can't make that commitment. However, I'll go play CQB at Siege/UA, I'll take the training at TTAC3 and Action Air and I'm serious about improving my performance and communication and getting the right gear to support it. Maybe if my CINC lets me one day , I'll even start getting out to field skirmishes.

[ThunderCactus]

I'll say it again, diversity is good.
Better to have the speedballers playing speedball with the speedball guys and the milsimers playing milsim with the milsim guys than having them all play together and everyone's unhappy.

[Canadian Psycho]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

I'll say it again, diversity is good.
Better to have the speedballers playing speedball with the speedball guys and the milsimers playing milsim with the milsim guys than having them all play together and everyone's unhappy.

If only it worked so nicely. Unfortunately alot of speedball guys starting showing up at milsim days and making the milsimers dumb down their game to make it speedball.

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho

If only it worked so nicely. Unfortunately alot of speedball guys starting showing up at milsim days and MAKING the milsimers dumb down their game to make it speedball.

?

[Wrath144]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

?

Read: walking off the field when they can't understand the implied "divide your team to attack this objective while simultaneously defending this objective" and getting stomped by a team a third of their size that has the mental capacity to understand gameplay beyond "there is an enemy that direction, I must shoot him".

As a game host it makes it very difficult to host more complex games that require thinking and strategy when all you can expect to show up are mostly mental midgets.

[gman1211]

We have seen an enormous boom of airsofters in our area. We cater to both the speed-soft and strategic types. We have games like bitch and team death-match that the speed-softers like (not saying everyone else does not like it). And we have more objective orientated games as well, such as patrol or HVT.

Both sides are thriving, but what we have found is that it is the strategic style games that keep people coming back. Once players get radios, they start really enjoying the objective side of things.

[Canadian Psycho]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

?

By refusing to follow game objectives, ROE and general Milsim style of play. Complaining excessively because its a milsim and they haven't shot someone in 30 seconds, asking for special rules to allow them to play in jeans/hoodies and allow hi-caps, no radios, won't follow squad leads/team leads. Soon as the game starts they run off to get in a gun fight, even if they are under an ROE. Not bleeding out or waiting for medics because being out of the game for 5 minutes in a 8 hr game is too long.

And if game admins don't dumb down their games they get badmouthed on forums/facebook for being elitists and a$$holes for not accommodating their style of play.

[Ricochet]

Back to the good 'ol days of invite only I guess. It's a bummer to hear this.

[AnthonyG]

Originally Posted by Danke

I understand why invite only happens, but we need to be careful about how we handle both new players, and the more "casual" player group.

I've had a few opportunities to play at invite-only games where you know the crowd is good and everyone is "vetted" and they are enjoyable, but we need to consider why these types of games exist. In the realm of private games... Statements like "I reserve the right to vet all players" or "you are not on the roster until I approve you" are somewhat BS. Are you saying this because you are legitimatly afraid all the bad boyz in red digi-cam are going to show up and ruin your game, or is it because you and all your friends just want to play with familiar-face, "top tier opr8drrs".

I have a contingency of friends that would have a hard time getting into an invite-only game, not because they are bad boyz, but because they simply don't play regularily enough to become known and make the connections they need to get invited/"vetted".

If you're worried about the sport dieing, I'd say don't be afraid to play with fresh faces, and take the time to mentor new players. I agree that the responsibility to keep players in the game for more than two years (and to prevent the sport from dieing) falls on the shoulders of Milsim and the veteran player community.

[FirestormX]

ThunderCactus sounds dead on about the state of airsoft. Skirmisher numbers flourish every year, but then tend to either get bored and leave, or take it to a LARPing level.

The number of people using "legit/expensive" kit (NODs, Crye/LBT/Ops Core gear, legit optics and lights, rucks, overnight gear, rain/cold weather gear, etc) is going up here in Ontario, and that's the fast-and-dirty heuristic that I use for "is this player going to be sticking with airsoft for a while". That's not to say that a lot of good players don't play hard in just their jeans and 5-year-old condor vests, while a lot of new players splurge on kit in their first year of chairsofting. But it's a simple heuristic.

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

Statements like "I reserve the right to vet all players" or "you are not on the roster until I approve you" are somewhat BS. Are you saying this because you are legitimatly afraid all the bad boyz in red digi-cam are going to show up and ruin your game, or is it because you and all your friends just want to play with familiar-face, "top tier opr8drrs".

I can't speak for everyone, but the appeal of private games for me is that there will be a minimum level of competency among the people I'm playing with. I don't consider myself a long-time vet, but I land pretty heavily on the "I'm just here to LARP" side of the spectrum. The people attending these private games know what they're getting into, and know how to play along, so I can get immersed in my LARPing and enjoy myself.

However, there is some truth to wanting to play with familiar faces. I've trained with several different groups, and LARPing is so much more fun when you're on the same page as everyone around you. If I see a random team mate covering a corner, it's nice to be able to walk up behind them, put downward pressure on their shoulder, and know that they'll get down on a knee so we can high-low it.

I have certain expectations about the experience I'll get when I attend a "milsim", which are just based around how I enjoy playing. That expectation is relatively, but not unreasonably, high. I want to play in a milsim where people don't quit whenever they feel like it; are able to follow orders; have a teamwork mindset; have comms; don't cheat; can push themselves; come prepared for the experience/weather/length/whatever; and are able to have fun without needing to pull a trigger. This is basic stuff, that a game of vetted players is more likely to provide.

It's great to play alongside newbies and get to know them. That's how I've met many of my friends, and how I've personally grown as an airsofter. But it's a lot of money and effort to go into a milsim, and now that I know what I want, that's what I try to find. I don't always want to get out to a game just to potentially spend 18+ hours herding cats on my squad, or listening to people complain about guard/recce duty, or watching people walk to their cars at 1am. Sometimes it's just fun to join a game where I can relax, and "get some work done" with like-minded people.

But arguably the best part of private games, is that they do stuff that you can't do with completely open games. Because the "invited" players meet a minimum level of competency, these games are often more challenging, or can do things out of the ordinary. Events like that not only give me new and interesting experiences, but also allow me to learn a lot of new stuff. Most events I go to, I'm one of the most junior/inexperienced people there, and people teach me a lot.

Games like Deadfall couldn't work with walk ons that end up walking off (like I attempted to do at my first Deadfall). Blackline events wouldn't be the well oiled immersion/learning machines that they are with random non-committed people. You couldn't have random people "raid" another game to kidnap a command element like Blackline did at Delta's Pathfinder game (with Delta's permission, of course). Not just for the obvious reasons of "random people shouldn't be trusted with motor vehicles, zipties, and hoods" - but also because it took weeks of lead-up preparation, and was executed by very dedicated and teamwork-focused players with patience, perseverance, and communication. It's difficult to achieve that kind of immersion if everybody isn't on the same page.

Sorry for getting so off topic.

[Danke]

This weekend is everybody gets a trophy day.

[Ricochet]

Originally Posted by Danke

This weekend is everybody gets a trophy day.

That's why there are no more trophies at all, just those who kick ass and those who bitch out. That's what life is all about... that and beer probably. "Some other smart words".

[Danke]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

That's why there are no more trophies at all, just those who kick ass and those who bitch out. That's what life is all about... that and beer probably. "Some other smart words".

Lot's o' trophies!

[Armyissue]

Airsofts popularity has increased exponentially.
The player base has grown.
The quality of the player and the game has diluted.
The Old guys who used to organize games we played were passionate about farming this hobby. They encompassed several strains of life into an event.
Camping, Camaraderie, Mentoring and mechanical aspects.
The game wasn't all about the game, NODs, Medic rulez sniper rules, blah.
Host and player came at the game weekend as active participants,
not provider and consumer.
maybe it sucks because, We stopped putting.