City of Markham Ontario bans all replica firearm sales with new by-law 2012-196

[Jimski]

I like the part about crimes with "replica guns". If I am robbed at gunpoint, I hope to God the robber is using an airsoft gun! Whether I know it or not it is inherently safer. LOL!

exactly.I feel so much safer now that they will ( for sure because of the bylaw, ahem) use real firearms.
Let's just hope criminals won't start assaulting people with lawnmowers or garden hoses because that would quickly make gardening a real hassle...

[mmmken]

I would like to bring up another point that this by-law is nothing new.

It has been brought up in the past (for an unrelated reason) that there is an identical by-law in effect in Brampton. It is almost word for word.

Source: http://www.brampton.ca/EN/City-Hall/...rm-replica.pdf

[Trev140_0]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

Thanks for posting this, it sucks that it specifically mentions airsoft guns.

Practically-speaking, I don't think it matters whether the bylaw would stand up in court, etc etc. What matters is that it brings unwanted attention and unwanted heat. York region police are going to have marching orders to cause trouble for airsoft enthusiasts.

That, aside from speculation about the momentum that it adds to anti-airsoft measures elsewhere, is the key take-away here.

I think unwanted attention comes from all forms. Guys geared up and driving down the road doesnt help, nor does shooting at a water park on a sunny saturday afternoon.

Why this doesnt get looked at closer is a mystery to me. There are plenty here who are trying to grow the sport, and several who for good intention or bad-aren't.

[lurkingknight]

I think if you are a resident of markham or a business owner operating in markham you need to get organized and write your city councilor about this. The more people that push back on this the more they may reopen it for discussion.

Obviously some suzie soccer mom saw that article a while back about the kids getting their shit taken away for playing with it on the street and wrote into city council to complain about it. People who play need to step up and defend their passtime, not bury their heads.

[mmmken]

Originally Posted by mmmken

I would like to bring up another point that this by-law is nothing new.

It has been brought up in the past (for an unrelated reason) that there is an identical by-law in effect in Brampton. It is almost word for word.

Source: http://www.brampton.ca/EN/City-Hall/...rm-replica.pdf

Another issue that baffles me. How does Canadian Tire get away with selling Clearsoft in Brampton? I see the same issue in Markham.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows....jsp?locale=en

Try postal code L6W3R7 (Brampton). It shows it in stock. It's also instock at my local Markham store. Why are they still being allowed to do so?

[venture]

Yes, there are several throughout the country. It is this theory that airsoft guns are dangerous that bothers me. They are dangerous for the irresponsible user, YES. but not for others and not for the police. Again, if a cop is in a gunfight with a criminal, I would think he would prefer the criminal be using an airsoft gun.

It is only irresponsible use that makes them dangerous, then only for the user. I can use almost any object irresponsibly and make it dangerous. These laws are requested by short sighted police departments.

[MADDOG]

Having a bylaw and enforcing it are two different things. They will use it when they want to and/or ignore it until someone gives clear direction on which organizations it should be enforced upon.

I think the large retail establishments with clearsoft will be on the "ignore" list.
If I was in pacific mall, I would be concerned.
Online retailers, more business for you.

[Trev140_0]

Bylaws are everywhere. Take for this one. Shoot tin Cans in your back yard with an airsoft gun and max fine is $100,000.
Same goes for little game of 6 on 6 in the woods.

Mississauga:

PART I – SHORT TITLE
1. This By-law shall be known as the “Discharge of Firearms By-law”.


“Firearm” means any barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet, missile or other
projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing bodily injury or death to a
person, and includes anything that can be adapted for the use as a firearm, and for the
purpose of this by-law includes a slingshot, a spring gun, air gun, paint ball gun and air
soft gun;
10. No person shall discharge, cause to be discharged or permit to be discharged a Firearm or
Bow within the limits of the City.

CONT (Exception)
16. The prohibition in section 11 does not apply to an owner or occupier of a property:

(e) where an enclosed building, or part thereof, is used for the discharge of a paint ball
gun or air soft gun that are used for paint ball gaming or air soft gaming where there is
no danger of any projectile fired or discharged from the paint ball gun or air soft gun
passing out of the building or into any other part of the building that is not used for the
lawful discharge of the paint ball gun or the air soft gun; and

ART IX - PENALTY
19. (1) Every person who contravenes any provision of this By-law, is guilty of an offence
and is liable to a fine, and such other penalties, as provided for in the Provincial
Offences Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. P.33, and the Municipal Act, 2001, as each may be
amended from time to time.
(2) In addition to Subsection 19 (1) of this By-law, any person who is charged with an
offence under this By-law by the laying of an information under Part III of the
Provincial Offences Act, and is found guilty of the offence is liable, pursuant to the
fine provisions of the Municipal Act, 2001, to a fine of no more than $100,000.00

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Everyone trots out the old " grow the sport" BS

this activity is growing all on it's own.. most venue owners and fields are really just trying to keep up with demand.

I think we do a pretty good job as a community self regulating and being conscious of bad press.

The issue is with the explosive growth in airsoft owners out there.. the the coefficient of boneheads to normal prudent people is going up.. there is bound to be more incidents .. and so bound to be more regulation to react to such incidents.

We are going to be victims of our own success.. we may in fact "grow the sport" right out of existance

[MaciekA]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

Everyone trots out the old " grow the sport" BS

It's not bullshit. Characterizing it as bullshit is, frankly, bullshit. Your dour counterargument is not any better than what you call bullshit. How about some constructive ideas on the topic for a change?

If we had UKARA/VCR, we could:

1) play
2) buy/import
3) protect a larger number of children from embarrassing accidents
4) legitimize the sport as a reenactment / extension-of-paintball type activity within the eyes of a larger portion of the public (more = better)
5) provide a framework that helps police
6) nip future bullshit in the bud like they have in the UK, or at least nip it more-so than we're nipping at the moment, which amounts to zero
7) provide a better framework for insurance
8) normalize age verification nationally

Honestly Brian, you have got to be at least somewhat aware of how frustrating *your* flavour of stance is on this for those of us who trot out the so-called BS.

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

I think we do a pretty good job as a community self regulating and being conscious of bad press.

Even if this were true, and you KNOW it isn't due to all the ridiculous things that happen in this community, this is largely irrelevant to the topic at hand, because the community isn't the problem, as you mention next:

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

The issue is with the explosive growth in airsoft owners out there.. the the coefficient of boneheads to normal prudent people is going up.. there is bound to be more incidents .. and so bound to be more regulation to react to such incidents.

We are going to be victims of our own success.. we may in fact "grow the sport" right out of existance

Brain, you can go be a victim if you want. Some of us enjoy this hobby enough to want to at least suggest other ideas and trade ideas on the matter. With all due respect, what you're advocating, which I believe boils down to essentially doing nothing, isn't working.

You always chime in on these threads... Clearly you give a hoot. You seem like a reasonable guy in person. Why not trade ideas instead of pessimism? It can't hurt.

[Danke]

Mack I'm sure you're a nice guy but you're still green.

If you roll back the clock on this site you will read a very involved thread where members here who put a detailed proposal to the government to enact regulations similar to the exemptions that players in the UK have. They had the door slammed in their face.

Do not believe the scene in the UK is Nirvana. Their exemption was a hail Mary pass that let them keep playing. They could loose that with the stroke of a pen

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by MaciekA

You always chime in on these threads... Clearly you give a hoot. You seem like a reasonable guy in person. Why not trade ideas instead of pessimism? It can't hurt.

This sport won't "grow" by any other means than more players .. more players logically result in more incidents .. more incidents will result in more legislative action at the local level..

Federally .. the government has sorted out their approach to airsoft guns.. and In my opinion we have a pretty good situation now with respect to access and pricing.. the airsoft market and community is Booming which is resulting in the increase in the public eye.

Id like to think I'be had a hand in that.. I've been a vocal proponent for this activity since 2005.. I've put myself out there in public and stood up for our activity.. I use MY LEGAL NAME in this forum. and been on National television and in national newspapers advocating for this community, and I have the lumps to prove it..

How many times have you had people threaten to rape your wife.. and burn down your house for your activities advocating for this community?

it seems to me YOU are all talk

As soon as you require a license to do a thing you hand control to the state.. who can eliminate that access at it's whim.. Legislative control of this activity at a national / federal level is exactly what we don't want.


the UK model was a "take it or leave it" last ditched effort to keep some access to airsoft guns in that country.. it's not a model to follow.. it's a cautionary tale to avoid.

The way things are now is frankly better than it has EVER BEEN in Canada regarding the use and access to airsoft guns, and the proliferation of legal venues to use them. I believe that some of the risks I have taken and the work I have done has contributed to this state of affairs. ( maybe I'm fooling myself..I don't know)

The FACT the municipalities are singling out airsoft guns in legislation is proof positive that Airsoft is no longer in the closet but well into the public eye. We have what we wanted.. but there is a downside.. evidenced by local legislation such as noted above.

I'm sorry but there is NO WAY to make this activity palatable to the majority of Canadians.. they don't get it.. they never will. some of them think we are SICK for even wanting to look at a gun. All we can hope for is that a majority remain ambivalent, and continue to believe that individual rights and freedoms trump the unease that most people experience at the mention of shooting sports.

[Metalsynth]

Right now, this looks to me more of a tool to swat a bothersome fly for the local PD.

Until I hear about players getting fines at a game, I'd stay calm about it.

The ones who really need to look into this right now are the local retailers. I dont see what prevents them to go see their local town representative are have their case heard.

If you pay taxes, you have a right to state your case.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Metalsynth

Right now, this looks to me more of a tool to swat a bothersome fly for the local PD.

Until I hear about players getting fines at a game, I'd stay calm about it.

The ones who really need to look into this right now are the local retailers. I dont see what prevents them to go see their local town representative are have their case heard.

If you pay taxes, you have a right to state your case.

exactly.. if everyone followed every city bylaw to the letter.. commerce , and freedom would be abolished.

[Jimski]

How many times have you had people threaten to rape your wife.. and burn down your house for your activities advocating for this community?

wow that happened to you for airsoft? these persons must have been pretty angry against plastic guns, wtf?

commerce , and freedom would be abolished.

that would be france lol