Warning for KJW M700 users and game orgs

[Slick]

Originally Posted by MadMax

I think if we want to set useful sniping limitations, we should make actual fps measurements at various ranges to determine what kinds of speeds with sniper weight rounds and connect them to muzzle velocity.

I was talking to Sha Do about this yesterday. He said that he and Gump have already done that.

I didnt read though all the posts sorry. But just wanted to say that this is what the sniper clinic is for. If your not a member of the clinic then you have to have a BA set to the fields fps limits. The only exception would be to those that were members of the clinic. If you were truly serious about sniping you would join and then could learn about every aspect there is to sniping in airsoft. And especially everything concerning safety; muzzle velocity, joules, velocity/joules of different bb weights, velocity/joules of a bb at 100ft, figuring out your guns minimum engagement range, judging distances, act, act.

[CDN_Stalker]

I have a feeling that "respected/responsible sniper types" be located from around the different regions (aka. the 18+ confirmation thing we had) and have those appointed talk to and vouch for those that want to consider using an over the top gun. No, am not pointing myself out by any means, even though I have a real Firearms Saftey Course under my belt, and have been very respectable with my upgraded M24 at games I've played. Just that there are some players out there that have VERY hot sniper rifles (500fps+) that play among the rule abiders that no one really knows about because they treat their opponents with respect and shoot them from totally reasonable distances. If you got hit by a .36 g BB from 150ft-200ft away, and it felt like any other AEG (stock or upgraded) shot from 40-100ft away with a .25g, would you complain after?

[Grim Fandango]

I think the sniper clinic is a great idea, however from what I know it is only available to those in Southern Ontario, or those who can make it to Southern Ontario fields where the sniper clinic courses are held. I think we need more online support and information for snipers. I'm sure people who want to know more about sniping in Vancouver or Manitoba or hell even Nova Scotia could benefit from the sniper clinics teachings, however they can't make it out to whatever courses take place here in Ontario. Perhaps a sniper clinic website would help. Even a FAQ on sniping would be useful. It could include muzzle velocities, differences between spring and gas sniper rifles, distance judgement, BB weights and such.

[ToRN]

Grim, excellent idea, but it is rather hard to instruct someone on hands on practices in type form, because it does lose a lot in translation.

[Grim Fandango]

Originally Posted by ToRN

Grim, excellent idea, but it is rather hard to instruct someone on hands on practices in type form, because it does lose a lot in translation.

That's true, but I think if we can atleast get this information out there i'm sure it'll be useful to someone. On that note I have posted a n00b camp day in the Games section. I need some n00bs and some veterans to train these n00bs, so check it out.

[CDN_Stalker]

Airsoft retreat has an "airsoft sniping 101" sticky that is VERY useful to new and expereinced airsoft snipers. I'd recommend that at least as a start. From there, after we do our tests on distance/fps/BB weight in the next few weeks, should give some very usefull info about the entire spectrum of airsoft guns in particular. Our tests won't give any info on skills, only on the effects of various ammo at different distances. Gonna try some real simple crap, like the McDonald's large empty cola cup we shot at 100ft at about 550fps using .25g BBs. Didn't penetrate that, so..................

[Freedom Fighter]

Originally Posted by Droc

at point blank

its not a CQB weapon

If you can use an M60 for CQB ...

Carl is going to be coming over to use my warehouse on Friday so I can test fire this baby at him from several distances to see how much blood can be extracted via BB.

[concept_8]

Actually aside from concealement, movement technique, and the shooting practice it'self, I think most of what grim described could be taught in writing.
Ppl would actually have to practice ranging/distance judgement for them selves but tips on how to do it ect. could be usefull in writing also.

Sounds like a good idea to me.
If anyone who knows thier stuff was willing to put the time into writing it out I know I'd give it a read.

[MadMax]

I'm actually not a very good candidate. I did a summer of door to door sales and telemarketing so I've developed a very thick skin.

However, I do plan to shoot thru a chrony at various ranges to get a good idea of velocity decay with respect to distance.

[concept_8]

I'd personally be very interested on the info concerning velocity decay from different distances and also with different weighted bb's as well.

[CDN_Stalker]

Spoke with a couple teammates and we're planning on putting this entire fps vs. BB weight vs. distance to rest. Seems that too many people have been scared into the "if it shoots 550fps with .2g BBs, then it's NOT safe at any distance!!!" Ya, I know, legality and such, but this is a test, so who cares about repeated words there.

Ok, here's what we plan to do. Simplicity wise, we are working out the details, but are suggesting propane vs. duster, .20g BBs up to .36g BBs, distances will be measured out, and instead of any fancy measures or calculations, will go for the penetration testing. I thought balloons, water ballons, foam, etc. at say 20ft increments with a full mag of gas each time to keep upper end levels consistant. If duster in my gun shoots the first .2g BB at 461, and all other fall under 450fps, then each will be done at 461fps. All testing will be noted, and will be video taped as much as we can. As long as it's understood that we are just trying to dispell the myths of the airsoft gun, am sure no one will complain. Besides, Droc volunteered to mbe the human test dummy for all our tests anyways. What's better than that? (Hey, he votes Liberal!!!!! Hehe)

[Malinak]

Originally Posted by CDN_Stalker

Example is HJ's post above, says he is witness to a .3g BB getting imbedded in someone's lip, but never gave the range it was shot at. Could have been 30ft for all we know.

If HJ is talking about the shot that Baker took, it was roughly 60ft away from what I can recall. I also remember that it was a graphite coated BB, not a .3g BB. maybe Sha Do remembers this too (as he was there that day, I believe) and could be a reason why he holds the clinics.
The person that shot Baker was also no Noob to the game, and yet this still happened. Fluke? Maybe, but I am not one to take the chance for this to happen again.

[Sgt_Lynch]

Where does this lead?

My concern here, is a drastic elevation of velocities. There's a huge difference between 450fps and 600fps. This looks like a new 'goal' for AEG snipers to start trying to acheive.

Personally, I've always felt Sniper Rifles were a waste of time given the fact most Assult Rifles acheive similar range and velocity. In the right hands a 600fps rifle would make the sniper role effective, not just some dude with a cool looking gun.

But the trick is those types of velocities staying in the right hands

We all know, if this is deemed acceptable.... some noob is going to show up somwhere with a 600fps AK47 lookin to rock & roll.

This has to be restricted to experinced players if it's accepted at all.

[SockMonkey]

I can understand the restricting idea, but really who are you or i to tell some one that they cant use thier gun but our pal over there can use the same one... 1 set of rules that every obe abides is the way to go. engagement ranges are great. but how many people can tell 100 feet? im not sure i could. streight fps limits are the way to go. we all know the bb's bleed alot of energy in the first 10-20 feet but i just dont see the need to have guns shooting as hot as some do. 500 is plenty.

At the end of the day its all about the fields we play at and the comfort level of the people who frequent them. If my field adopts a 700 fps rule i dont have to play there. and by and by 90% of the people i know who have designated sniper rifles are high calibre players, but the other 10% scare the bejesus out of me.

[CDN_Stalker]

600fps is way too high to even talk about being made legal. like you said, 500fps is plenty good.

SGT Lynch, moderately upgraded and set up bolt action sniper rifle can actually outrange an AEG of the same velocity. My M24 is waiting for new parts as it's lost compression and such (sitting around 415fps right now), but I can still fling a .36g BB out to ~230ft relatively accurately. Dedicated sniper rifles can have a higher fps (as is allowed) just because of the nature of them, as well as no full auto capability. Personally I am fine with 450fps limit for them, which is what my M700 is running with duster now. More testing is needed for me to better understand this gun, and to learn what it's capable of doing at various ranges.