Gun Buyer Blues (retailer expectations )

[Scarecrow]

The answer is simple, if you don't think its a good deal, don't buy it.

[Dracheous]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

The answer is simple, if you don't think its a good deal, don't buy it.

I've already said that Scarecrow :P. Because if you search long enough, what your looking for pops up in the classifieds anyway. Or, you drop all the money and the next day the thing you ordered pops up for less >.<.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

Perhaps Mcguyver, but why the excessive price gouge on every day guns then?

Why is a TM M4 nearly 150% increase in price to the door and the PTW ((if at your $1600 price)) only a 25% increase? That's a huge difference and in my eye is the only bullshit with retailers in recent years. Not waiting, or having trouble contacting people because thats all small things that people just have to accept that is the way the world just works. If should say that PTW are not paying as much as others are for importation than those that import TM and the like I call shinnanigans, because fewer PTWs are typically sold than TM's if both had the same availability. Simply because more people can afford $500 over $1800. If retailers sold guns at the better costs they'd sell much faster, I remember what ASCA had a shipment come in and with in two weeks "out of stocks" were EVERYWHERE again. And their prices were very decent.

Where is Marui these days in Canada? Or G&P, or Classic Army? Nowwhere to be found. The trend is either the PTW (via group order) or clones via "retailers". Airsoft in Canad is not about volume sales at minimal profit. The law does not allow for volume importation, the guys who tried are gone now, because they did it. You have to sell 1s and 2s as that's all you can get.

Funny, how people are still complaining about price gouging now. When we have what, 30 guns at most available for sale form "retailers". The complaining was going on when we had 1,000 guns for sale from 20 retailers. Nothing has changed about the law, the CBSA or CRA from then until now. So why the shock over the prices still being high?

But the risk to import and sell has increased.

Those who don't like it can get a business, get a license and try it for themselves. Until then, there is absolutely nothing you can do but take what you're given. Or find another hobby. It's a sad reality to be forced to take anything, but that's exactly where we are, isn't it?

[Bowers]

there used to be 20 retailers in canada!? now thats a shocker

[Double Tapper]

I feel if communication is good I am more than satisfied to wait,but I
would wait around three weeks before I send off a pm just for a update.
It would be good to send a pm to the person about the item you are
ordering before committing yourself.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

The market.

If you don't like the price don't buy.

The problem is that the demand is high and the supply is low. This drives the price up.

In the USA and in Asia, there are no supply pressures. Supply can meet demand so the pressures are competative between retailers. This keeps prices low.

It is not gouging to charge the "market price" for an object.

When there were a number of retailers around.. most of them belonged to a cartel that fixed prices.. there were no downward price pressures as demand still outstripped supply. The all agreed to a common pricing structure as they were for the most part all sourcing from the same broker.

Now, we see a proliferation of smaller retailers that are competing .. but it won't take them long to figure out they don't have to. Every gun they birng in has a buyer, at a low price and at a high price.

If you were selling and you knew you could make $100 or $150 for selling the same thing.. would you choose to make less?

It is irrational to presume that the guys taking the risk to import and sell will do so for anything other than profit. They should charge as much as the market will pay.

[BrickHouse]

I've just so recently tried one of these private dealers with much success!

Honest about the time period for importation with included risks and refund policy on seizure.

I called this guy at 9am on a Sunday and chated for over 30 mins! Wicked customer service.

Anyhow folks good service and good prices are out there just have to find the right retailer.

And when you do, KEEP IT TO YOURSELF!

Me 2 Bitz

[Firewalker]

Originally Posted by Dracheous

IE. a PTW here costs $2400, but only $1600 in the states. Thats an $800 increase that I can't seem to allocate entirely ALL of which where its going. I mean, the State retailer who gets this stuff in bulk will have paid his import taxes and shipping costs already, and yes both can be different. But Lets say its 5% difference on import taxes, thats still only $80 more. Say it costs another $20-40 in shipping thats $120. Now I've found different costs on the importation license, some reports have said $5,000 some have said $10,000. At $10,000 say guy sells 100 guns per year, AEG, GBB, BA, what ever it is. Its only $100 per unit if you flat rate it ((would make selling springers hard if you did that)) So there's $220, whered the other $580 come from?

Blame Canada. TV Comparison time again.

Best Buy US: LG - 50" 720p Flat-Panel Plasma HDTV 50PG20 $1,399.99

Best Buy Canada: LG 50" Flat-Panel Plasma HDTV** (50PG20) $1,999.99

600 dollar difference. Same TV. Not a restricted/ hard to import item. It's not just airsoft, it's everywhere in Canada as a whole.

Some people just look at the sticker price, throw a fit and then get all teary eyed before taking the time to compare other items. The reason I used TV's is that they closer match the prices. You can use other items and find the same sort of pricing difference. Our dollar's worth the same-ish, yet we pay significantly more for everything.

It's not airsoft retailers... It's Canadian economics.

[Guardian]

Absolutely agree on many of these issues except for maybe this... It is not always practical to keep legitimate beefs between the buyer and the seller where they should be. If either party chooses to ignore PM’s and email communications, the issue needs to be communicated somewhere and the sales thread is typically the accepted place. It is like standing at the store sales counter transacting business. If the parties wish to avoid the disadvantages of this then they would do well to keep up with the more discreet forms of communication. Having said that, I am not sure what business anyone who is not actually transacting business with a seller really has posting in his sales thread. I understand some folks love to post their opinion on stuff, but something like “good on you for putting up with the BS…” is considered chatter and is not typically allowed on classified threads. Specific “Gun buyer blues” situations are not your business unless they are posted in the trader rating and you are considering purchasing from the seller.
It's OK to have an opinion without posting it.

[LeGROS]

We from shootSOFT!!!


We think airsoft is one of the best sports there is!! For that we try to give access to every one the possibility to have an AEG at a fair price!!

Since few weeks we all see a lot of new small retails growing… and this good for all of us!!

shootSOFT start in last December in a time where airsoft was in difficulty! From that time we have grow and serve more than hundred members from ASC!! Always with more than they expect, you could have a view on what they think of us here http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=50926

Telling you we will ship in the next 48Hrs… False… That why we always ask for a 20 business days before shipping! Stock or not!!

We will always try to have the best price there is for are community!! For that we try to negotiate the best deal with Hong Kong!


One of the promises we want to keep is the respect of the 20 business days!!
If we could not ship in that delay we will accept to refund you and we will contact you as soon we will be ready to ship your order!!

Yes we take costumer order… please don’t ask us price only to know how much it will be!! This cost us time!!! Time will be charge at the end!!! To figure out how much it will be… simple x3!!! No it not always like this… when you will be in the way to buy… We will be please to calculate you the best price!!

We from shootSOFT will try every thing to serve you the same way we would like to!!!

Christian and Jay
shootSOFT team

[BrickHouse]

Another Shameless Plug........ BTW not the retailer I was speaking of above.

Not saying shootsoft does not offer a great service mind you.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

You're right... should just keep my nose out of it..

This is my remedy for good communications with a private seller.

I typically will require

Full name , full address, Telephone # Home work and cell and an e-mail address before I will send money.

I will not require this If the seller is vouched for by someone I know well who had an opinion I value.

If you purchase something from a stranger with nothing but a nickname on a forum to communicate by... its a recipe for frustration.

Originally Posted by Guardian

Absolutely agree on many of these issues except for maybe this... It is not always practical to keep legitimate beefs between the buyer and the seller where they should be. If either party chooses to ignore PM’s and email communications, the issue needs to be communicated somewhere and the sales thread is typically the accepted place. It is like standing at the store sales counter transacting business. If the parties wish to avoid the disadvantages of this then they would do well to keep up with the more discreet forms of communication. Having said that, I am not sure what business anyone who is not actually transacting business with a seller really has posting in his sales thread. I understand some folks love to post their opinion on stuff, but something like “good on you for putting up with the BS…” is considered chatter and is not typically allowed on classified threads. Specific “Gun buyer blues” situations are not your business unless they are posted in the trader rating and you are considering purchasing from the seller.
It's OK to have an opinion without posting it.

[Guardian]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

...Full name , full address, Telephone # Home work and cell and an e-mail address before I will send money...

I will definitely be adopting this good practice in the future. Trader ratings alone are a fickle indicator and most folks seem reluctant to raise negative feedback (particularly when you could be partnered up at the next skirmish).

[mopic]

The airsoft sales thing is not easy, you make sales and delivery times based on the market conditions at that time. Many things can happen, shipments sometimes get held up. Communications is another issue, as an individual buyer you are concerned only with one purchase (Your Own) try responding to 75-100 phone calls, pm's, and emails a day, not easy. You ask people in your threads to email and not to Pm, but they do anyway, you ask people to keep sales threads clear, but they don't so that means you are trying to answer questions, and inquiries on three different mediums.

I personally am in a job that does not have computer availability, I check my threads and emails in the evening after work and ship 8-10 packages in the morning.

A little patience is needed, I am aware that there have been some retailers that have engaged in fraud in the past, but it is not right that current retailers should be put through the third degree and treated as though they are the next conman.

As for profit, most retailers buy at U.S. retail prices, add tax delivery and other wonderful fees a 300.00 AEG is at $500.00 by the time it gets here.

Lets not talk about risk. Anyone here want to run a 20% risk that you may loose a $12,000 dollar order each and everytime you buy?

Also, don't ask for a discount just for the sake of asking for a discount. I know that retailers on here have posted the the lowest possible price that they can realistically sell an item for.

[aZn_triXta07]

Don't like the prices don't buy as everyone has said above.

Importing & selling airsoft takes time + patience and a whole lot of money out of your own pocket.

On a commercial scale where your goods typically take a week to arrive in the license holders hand you're probably hiring a customs broker to go through the whole process & that will just piss the CBSA off alot more and have your 'business' on surveillance.

Unless you're importing on a non-commercial basis than the costs will be alot less, however it may take anywhere from 2-4 weeks before you get clearance of your goods which just adds to the whole time factor.

Importing airsoft from China has become popular these days because of the market - first there was BuyAirsoft.ca and than A&A who were the first two to increase the price for clones so much - when they first emerged in Canada they were going between $180 - $260. Surprisingly though people still bought them and the bar has been raised.

More importantly though for the sellers and as mopic has mentioned:

Originally Posted by mopic

Lets not talk about risk. Anyone here want to run a 20% risk that you may loose a $12,000 dollar order each and everytime you buy?

Airsoft from China costs less to import and is more readily available from distiributors worldwide. Wouldn't you feel more comfortable knowing that you are only going to be $5000 in the hole than $10,000 plus? It's because of these guns you see LESS pre-orders for guns. Last thing sellers want is having their inboxes full everyday from people worried about if their guns made it through the torturous process of the CBSA.

It is only here in Canada that they are still frowned upon by the high rollers here yet in Asia they are more common than your typically brands. Aftermarket upgrade parts are again readily available and everyone there is always upgrading their toys to the tits.

When you're considering all of this - when there are better margins to be made by importing certain guns I believe anyone here would want to see the best out of the headaches etc. put in to all this.

Oh yeah, stop whining about the prices people.