Elitists -Newbies, please read

[Slono]

Originally Posted by Rai

I never said heavy was better but for one game or until payday does it matter if you are just trying a game out?

If it is for one game, why don't you rent equipment? Its probably a cheaper alternative and better value than purchasing craptastic gear that you'll never use again, especially if you intend on upgrading gear because you enjoy the sport. At least by renting good equipment you'll really get a feel of what is good.

[TokyoSeven]

Originally Posted by Rai

does it matter if you are just trying a game out?

It does not, as long as one understands that their inferior good is just that, something that gives them the means to participate until they can commit to something with more quality.

I would like to draw everyone's attention to this link. While it may only be wikipedia it fairly and accurately describes the idea of "inferior goods"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferior_good

actually...I will just quote the most important paragraph of the page

In consumer theory, an inferior good is a good that decreases in demand when consumer income rises, unlike normal goods, for which the opposite is observed. Normal goods are those for which consumers' demand increases when their income increases. Inferiority, in this sense, is an observable fact relating to affordability rather than a statement about the quality of the good. As a rule, too much of a good thing is easily achieved with such goods, and as more costly substitutes that offer more pleasure or at least variety become available, the use of the inferior goods diminishes.

[m102404]

Wow...I thought I wrote long posts...

OP: I do get where you're coming from...it's obvious that you put a lot of thought into your post...and I think the points are solid.

But who cares if someone thinks you're an elitist or not? Who cares if some anonymous new guy with a bug in their rear argues a point (wrong or right)? Who cares if some anonymous person shrugs off whatever advice is given to them?

It's self evident to someone with half a brain who is trying to figure out a new hobby that they should pay close attention to any constructive help given to them. Those with less brains than that and who cast that advice aside aren't going to be helped anyways.

Personally, I think that any well structured/worded question...deserves a well structured/worded/thought-out answer. Regardless if the heart of the question has merit or not.

A half baked, misspelled, senseless post should be AT MOST...ignored. But I don't think that some people here are capable of that.

I do find it a bit amusing that guys will pound on a point endlessly...when the fastest way to make it vaporize into the deep archives of ASC is to simply ignore it and let it die. If the poster intended to troll you guys into a frenzy...you've handed over the win.

[Crunchmeister]

T7 has it. There's nothing wrong with buying a low cost vest to try out the game. As long as you have a decent gameable gun, good eye protection and good boots (one can't stress that last one enough), a cheap vest that will at least carry your mags is good enough. It'll do. However, one quickly realizes the problems, limitations, and often, durability of their purchase and will buy something better down the road. The vest is one area where I would agree that it's ok to cheap out on a first purchase.

That being said, for the same price as these cheap vests new, you can often find a half decent used vest that will last. And if it's a modular platform, you can always upgrade it with pouches you need / want. It may already have most, if not all the pouches you'll need. In the long run, this is cheaper than buying a cheap vest first, then a better one plus pouches down the road.

[pusangani]

yep, I notice alot of noobs (including myself) buy those swat style black vests to start out with, and quickly realize that black is a horrible colour to play with outdoors, and that they are usually very uncomfortable.

[QKLee11]

Hey for a half descent and fair price, a new Airsofter can buy a good JG Clearsoft model from Valocity Arms. I was at Frank's office last week and got to see these new models. The claer soft is smoky lower eeceiver and the weight of the rifle felt real, even weighed on scales. I am going to buy one of his M 4's and GBB M 9 (clearsoft) so I can transport them back and forth of United States when I play down there.

Q

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by QKLee11

Hey for a half descent and fair price, a new Airsofter can buy a good JG Clearsoft model from Valocity Arms. I was at Frank's office last week and got to see these new models. The claer soft is smoky lower eeceiver and the weight of the rifle felt real, even weighed on scales. I am going to buy one of his M 4's and GBB M 9 (clearsoft) so I can transport them back and forth of United States when I play down there.

Q

I'd like to remind everyone to go easy on him. I think he means Cansoft and not clearsoft.

[Crunchmeister]

Other than the clear / tinted lower, VA's JG guns are the same as the regular JG line.I'm 100% behind them. Ditto for the G&G and ICS lines with the clear / tinted receivers. I've seen and shot a few of the G&G models and IMO, they're excellent guns and make great starter models.

However, others have serious issues with clear receivers despite how good everything else in and on the gun may be.

[Schlyder]

you will still have issues with taking an airsoft gun across the border, whether it has a clear lower or not.

[knightoice]

Read it all. Learned a lot. Appreciate the thread. When you mentioned G&G "half breeds" were you referring the the CAS line? Is there anything wrong with them? Do you know the failure rates on them; because I was planning on getting on as a first airsoft gun. I would google it but it's really hard to find stuff on the CAS line. Happy hunting!

[m102404]

There's quite a few ok starter guns out there...but I'd never recommend the tinted lower G&G M4 blow backs. I've seen too many broken receivers.

Now, not all receivers are created equal and maybe the hammer resistant ones won't crack at the front pin. Perhaps I'm biased after seeing just the broken ones.

[ratnest]

Originally Posted by pusangani

yep, I notice alot of noobs (including myself) buy those swat style black vests to start out with, and quickly realize that black is a horrible colour to play with outdoors, and that they are usually very uncomfortable.

i have one of those, bought it on a whim was shopping for a new front end, regret it a lot.

i can understand why people get spooked when they join and lash out at he people giving advice.

when i first joined i asked what pistol to buy, instead i got a shopping list of stuff i didn't even realize was needed, and a lecture on the shittiness of high caps. (thanks crunch for that advice) it was depressing.

but i got av'ed got a new front end for my t-maul, some new batteries, and a box of real caps and some new batteries. and months later replaced my kjw pistol with a ksc which really was worth the extra money.

now if only i could get out to a game...
my first thread in the noobie tank taught me that gear wise, my pre conceived notions of what airsoft where wrong.

and this thread really does reinforce that

[safx]

Originally Posted by TokyoSeven

It does not, as long as one understands that their inferior good is just that, something that gives them the means to participate until they can commit to something with more quality.

I would like to draw everyone's attention to this link. While it may only be wikipedia it fairly and accurately describes the idea of "inferior goods"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferior_good

actually...I will just quote the most important paragraph of the page

Alright, queue the record scratch.

I disagree. Oh no, how is that possible?
We were all joining hands and united
snobs just a second ago...

Airsoft is not much different than your
average geek role playing hobby. You
want like minded geeks to maintain
the status quo— correct? Well as long
as they look/act the part they should
be accepted and not ruin your fantasy,
even if you can't see the price tags and
brand names hanging off the gear and
guns.

I'm still wearing my imitation BlackHawk
tac vest from 5 years ago ($20), albeit
without any buckles or zippers from being
shot out at TAC. But the fact remains I
joined this hobby in jeans with a WE pistol,
but quickly bought the cheapest TAC gear
(all black) to fit in with CQB play. And I
still use the very same crappy gear to
this day. Outside play happened the same
way, went in civies, graduated to another
cheap ($20) green tac vest and woodies.
My gear closet for indoor and outdoor cost
less than one of my cheapest pistols and
it works.

I hate to break it to you folks but most if
not all of our "goods" are inferior. They're
cheapass clone toys of real steel items.
WE are inferior to the real operators. How
many players are even in decent physical
shape? Makes me laugh when I see hard
core role players wearing all the real gear
in XXL and clutching a cheeseburger in
one hand.

I understand you want to draw the line, like
any Star Trekkie or Star Gate hobbyist, but
realize it's about fun, and if you don't have
fun right away why would you invest? It's
your duty as head geeks to educate and
mentor the next gen of big spenders and
hard core role players.

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by knightoice

Read it all. Learned a lot. Appreciate the thread. When you mentioned G&G "half breeds" were you referring the the CAS line? Is there anything wrong with them? Do you know the failure rates on them; because I was planning on getting on as a first airsoft gun. I would google it but it's really hard to find stuff on the CAS line. Happy hunting!

If i were you i'd try to find a G&G Armament version instead of CAS. Yes they are harder to find as CAS has a near strangle hold on G&G but totally worth the effort. I bought a G&G cansoft as my second gun, I love it. You will probably need to change the hop up rubber though.

[Renegade)]

I agree with everything thats said about the guns. However I think gear can be whatever suits you, if it works for what you paid, why change.. But if it is uncomfortable and or breaks easy, than yes, time to get some better quality gear...

For me I still use the $40 tactical vest that I purchased for my second game, that was 4 years ago.. for every other loadout, I use 1968 Vietnam webgear. It works for me and has never failed, so I am sure not gonna go spend $100 on another rig just so I can be apart of the group who speant as much on gear as they did guns

That said, I speant 90% of my funds on my guns when I started out, I fully recomend doing this when you start out as well. Get a decent BDU, belt and some pouches to hold your mags, canteen for water. Then get a gun that works, battery that works, and a charger that works. This should be the order of operations to start your airsoft career, then after, start to buy some gear to fit your play, comfort, ect.

My 2 cents, otherwise, good thread.