FAQ for Tokyo Marui Hi-Capa, 2011, 1911, MEU & Detonics type variants

[RacingManiac]

I am guessing its just tolerance, though most airsoft bushing(SD for hi-Cap or Nova for 1911) I had/have all developed play eventually, the problem of steel bushing meets aluminum slide....

I quite like using SD barrel with or without their slide(actually I have no SD slide now that I think about it). Their out of box fit is very tight and needs fitting usually, but that works out to be tight locking barrel once fitted, and minimum play. Barring my open class Hi-Capa I have SD barrel in all my 1911/2011(2 straight with bushing in 1911s, and a hybrid in the SVI). They are about as good as you can get without going serious custom like Illusion Kinetic/ProG4....

[turok_t]

Can you guys post a pic of this bushing you speak of?

Can you guys also post up a pic of the compensator so i have a better understanding?

Thanks!

[ILLusion]

BUSHING:



COMPENSATOR:

[turok_t]

Ah, thanks Brian. Is the bushing the plate that goes around the outer barrel?? Im assuming the compensator is the extra piece that hides the outer barrel..

[ILLusion]

Well... from the front of the muzzle, yes, I suppose you could say the bushing is a plate. At least it looks like a plate. It's not. It's a bushing (cylindrical object) with depth that goes in to the slide and surrounds/supports the barrel:



As for the compensator... same deal... looking at a slide in battery, I suppose I can see how you could say it's "hiding" the outer barrel. But it's not really hiding it... it's attached to the outer barrel. Once the slide racks back, the barrel isn't hidden anymore.

[MoreToasties]

Maybe he meant it hides the inner barrel?

[ILLusion]

Well... he specifically said "outer barrel"...

[Scopedog]

I have a question regarding gas efficiency.

I recently acquired a TM MEU clone (manufactured by Army). It is a full metal clone which is currently eating propane like it's going out of style. The magazine (also Army) does not appear to have any leakage, yet I am only getting 7~8 shots at best, and 2~3 at worst.

What portions of the mechanism should I be looking at to help alleviate this?

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Scopedog

What portions of the mechanism should I be looking at to help alleviate this?

The entire gun. Buy a Marui.

LOL

jk. Sorta... okay, not really. But yeah... sorry, I don't have strong experience with clones, so I can't answer questions like this without actually handling them and checking out the mechanism in person.

Clones can experience a lot of other issues not common to an original Marui. Most of it is generally chalked up to poor manufacturing and/or poor/loose engineering.

Contrary to popular belief, none of these clones are 100% compatible with Marui... there is always *some* area that isn't fully compatible.

Who knows, it could be the mag. Try another mag and see what the results are. How full are you filling the mags? These single-stack variants struggle for gas due to their very small reservoir.

I generally don't do "e-diagnoses" of GBB problems, because users almost always give me less than useful descriptions of the problem that lack a lot of information that they may not know to notice or look for. It's not practical for me to walk them through entire troubleshooting sessions either, because... well... I don't have that much free time, to be honest. Send it to a gun doctor or someone more experienced who can look at it in person if you aren't able to figure out the problem.

Sorry for the bluntness of the response. I don't play well with clones.

[turok_t]

Oh i see that makes more sense.

1. So is it better to have a bushing since it provides more support and stability? Does it increase accuracy because of the added weight to the front of the gun?

2. So I just wanted to confirm, since Im not using a compensator, then I buy a separate chamber and a separate cone barrel. BUT if my slide has the notch for the bushing, then I can get a STRAIGHT barrel + bushings. Correct?

3. How does this bushing notch look like on the slide? Picture? Im interestsed in getting the SD OPS MRP slide, does it have the notch?

4. When you guys say "forward battery", what does it mean? Sorry for all the newb questions. I think when I have everything in front of me it will make more sense. Im just trying to imagine this in my head and watching youtube videos.

[m102404]

Dude, you crack me up. ASC should charge you a dollar a question. At least you can put together a sentence well and it's an easy read....

1. Pistols have short little barrels and any movement is greatly magnified by the time that the projectile reaches the target (and that's assuming the projectile travels in a predictable manner).

- Semiautomatic pistols have the follow things to consider.
1. The frame of the pistol is in your hand and so "fixed" to your body. You hand holds it and let's assume you hold it the same every time (or at least you can try to).
2. The slide is a "floating" assembly that rides back and forth on the frame....so in small differences it's not great for accuracy since there's play (i.e. slop, gap, wiggle room, etc...) between the slide and frame. What differentiates a great gun and a so-so gun is this fit. Tight enough not to wiggle around randomly, loose enough to work.
3. The barrel wobbles around in the slide...adding another point where deviation can happen. Because it releases, moves and locks up with every shot if it comes to rest differently with every shot, it doesn't matter how accurately you aim, the shot won't go where you're aiming. How little the barrel deviates in it's locked up (in battery) postion makes the difference between a great gun and a so-so one.
4. The sights are fixed to the slide (even if they're adjustable, they're essentially fixed in position relative to the slide). That's a good thing...since if they moved around then why bother aiming in the first place.
5. There's only three parts to support a 1911 style barrel. The locking lugs on the top of the barrel...these match up to the slots cut on the inside of the slide. The bearing surfaces at the bottom of the slide...these ramps push the barrel up and lock it into the lugs in the slide. And the "tip"/end of the barrel when it meets the slide.
6. You can't really adjust the lugs nor can you really alter the ramps of a barrel. As long as it jams tight when in battery you're good. But they don't...because metal wears. And if it was too tight, it'd get stuck.
7. You cannot really adjust the fit of the barrel to the slide...but you can hope that the parts that you get help you with this. You want as little play as possible between the barrel and the slide. Close enough for minimal movement...loose enough for reliability. Cone barrels can be fitted...i.e sand away a bit of narrow a big cone and you'll get a good fit eventually. Airsoft barrels are mostly undersized...and it's not at all easy/pretty/successful to add material back.
- a bushing takes up the gap between the barrel and the slide. But now you have an extra component that has to be right on. The bushing needs to not move in relation to the slide...and fit extremely well with the straight barrel. Straight barrels are straight (or at least as best as possible)...cylinders can be reamed a lot easier than tapering a cone barrel...so it's easier to precisely fit a barrel to a bushing. Sadly...again, airsoft parts are usually made with too much slop.
- In addition to the above...for airsoft guns there's the inner barrel. The inner barrel should have minimal movement with the outer barrel.

So...what you're trying to do to get the best accuracy is to get the inner barrel to be consistent with the outer barrel...the outer barrel conisistent with the slide and the slide consistent with the sights (usually the gimme part in all this). If you do this...the fit of the slide to the frame is immaterial in the most part...since what you aim with (sights) is consistent with what the projectile comes out of (muzzle of inner barrel). But a nice repeatable slide to frame fit is highly desireable since you can then let your training/muscle memory aim for you vs. making lots of small muscle corrections for every single shot.

NOTE: NONE of the above is really necessary for most shooting with an airsoft pistol.


2. Yes, correct

3. Dunno...reread Illusions post about not being able to confirm ahead of time. Actually, my comp gun has a SD MRP OPS Slide on it...but I don't want to disassemble it to check.

4. When a gun (pistol/rifle/howitzer/etc) is in firing position, it has returned to battery. Otherwise the action (the mechanism that is activated by the trigger and usually strikes a firing pin) is open. Return to battery is a common firearm term...actually has more to do with cannons being pushed into position than pistols I think.

You've got to google "how a pistol/gun works" and do some reading. Or download the Canadian Firearms Course book somewhere online. All firearms work pretty much the same...all firearms have the same basic components...almost all the "terms" are used for every make/model/etc...that's ever been made.

[Scopedog]

Originally Posted by ILLusion

Sorry for the bluntness of the response. I don't play well with clones.

No worries. It's my first clone GBB, all my others are TM.

I did try one of my TM 1911 mags and although the performance was better it was still barely able to make 10 rounds before running empty. This would lead me to believe that the seal between the magazine and loading muzzle is at least part of the issue. Although, I assume there's more to it than that.

I do have another question though, it pertains to the hammer spring. What purpose does an upgraded one serve, and when should it be used?

[ILLusion]

1. See my original response again. I answered it in detail there.

Originally Posted by ILLusion

3. There is no "better" - it depends on your purpose. Competitive shooters prefer the bull barrels (cone) due to the heavier muzzle weight being able to bring down muzzle flip, as well as faster slide cycling speed due to lighter slide weight. Shooters interested in building "1911" style builds prefer the straight barrel, but it requires you to also get the optional barrel bushing kit.

I'll re-iterate that bull barrels carry more muzzle weight than a straight barrel, and it reduces muzzle flip.
And I'll add the spacing between a bull barrel and a slide is roughly the same as the spacing between a straight barrel and it's bushing. The spacing between the inner barrel and either outer barrel is also the same. Different users may have different experiences in regards to accuracy, but technically, they are the same. The pistols will just have a different feel when shooting.
Further, a barrel bushing system has fewer points of entry for dirt and debris to enter the system.

2. Yes, correct

3.


Full gallery here:
http://www.pbase.com/illusive_airsoft/image/65515331

Regarding the slide you want, read the original response I posted again:

Originally Posted by ILLusion

3. .... NO online retailer indicates whether the slide has the bushing notch cut in to it. When you ask them, they also give you a "I have no idea what you're talking about" answer. You'll just have to order the slide you want and see if it has the proper bushing grooves in it to support the kit. If it doesn't, then you'll need to stick with the bull barrel.

The several Shooters Design OPS MRP slide that I acquired did NOT have the bushing notch.
All ILLusion Kinetics slides have the notch. Even the one with the MRP-OPS design.

4. Referring to the slide "returning forward in battery" simply means "when it reaches the forward resting portion of it's blowback cycle and is ready to fire again."

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Scopedog

No worries. It's my first clone GBB, all my others are TM.

I did try one of my TM 1911 mags and although the performance was better it was still barely able to make 10 rounds before running empty. This would lead me to believe that the seal between the magazine and loading muzzle is at least part of the issue. Although, I assume there's more to it than that.

Is there any weakness in blowback strength?

Originally Posted by Scopedog

I do have another question though, it pertains to the hammer spring. What purpose does an upgraded one serve, and when should it be used?

An upgraded hammer spring provides a deeper and more reliable strike against the valve knocker, and thus, the gas release valve on the magazine.

An upgraded hammer spring is required if you use magazines containing gasses at higher than spec pressure. Keep in mind, that most (all) guns of Japanese origin are originally built to run on duster gas. Therefore, putting in propane gas already increases the amount of force against the valve, and likewise, requires greater force to crack it open. The problem is exacerbated if the magazine is allowed to come to rest at a relatively high ambient temperature, for example, sitting by a windowsill on a hot sunny day or just running around at a skirmish on a blazing hot and humid 40 degree day. Basic gas physics: at higher temperatures, gas vaporizes faster - in other words, the pressure increases if it is contained. In such a situation, many users may have experienced a dead fire when inserting a hot propane mag in to their gun and pulling the trigger, only to hear a *click* with no action occurring.

A weaker example of that is when the first shot you fire seems extremely weak... velocity is low, blowback power is weak, but as you fire more and more, the velocity and blowback power increases. This is part of the cooldown effect - as the gas expands, the liquid cools and as the unit cools, the pressure decreases, allowing follow up strikes to break the valve with greater ease.

This can be resolved by using a stronger hammer spring to ensure a reliable strike when the pressure on the valve is too high.

Players who rely on their pistol to work when it needs to work, are best to install a stronger hammer spring if they are using ANY gas stronger than duster.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by m102404

Dude, you crack me up. ASC should charge you a dollar a question.

ASC should pay me a dollar a question answered.