See through guns and the death of "airsoft"

[Mr.Shiney]

Well lets see Trespassing for Provincial Law, and various local bylaw

as for Criminal Code Offences see below

Section 175 CAUSING DISTURBANCE, INDECENT EXHIBITION, LOITERING
Section 180 COMMON NUISANCE
Section 63 UNLAWFUL ASSEMBLY
Section 86 CARELESS USE OF A FIREARM
Section 87 POINTING A FIREARM
Section 88 POSSESSION OF A WEAPON FOR DANGEROUS PURPOSE
Section 89 CARRYING A WEAPON WHILE ATTENDING A PUBLIC MEETING
Section 90 CARRYING A CONCEALED WEAPON
Section 91 UNAUTHORIZED POSSESSION OF A FIREARM
Section 219 CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE

and that is without anyone getting hurt

[pusangani]

Originally Posted by HGI

Hey pusangani, welcome to ASC, I know your somewhat new around here but a lot of people will be able to let you know how a few years ago it could take upto 3 to 6 month for a new member to get their AV status due to inactive verifiers in some areas of Canada.

buddy, what does that have to do with what I posted? the guy was complaining about having to get AV'd NOW, not "a few years ago" your post makes no sense

all your post was, was an attempt to belittle me with the "I know your somewhat new around here" bit, which is just pathetic.

I know you are in flame mode right now, but my post wasn't directed at you so chill the fuck out.

Originally Posted by HGI

Find me a link to where it says playing in public parks with clear soft is a criminal offense in canada, cause believe it or not... it isn't.

I'm sorry I know you've been here a long time, and you might have missed this, but it is already common knowledge that discharging of airguns within city limits is a crime

[Dirtbag]

This talk about a 4 hour course that some guy thinks is valuable is just silly. This is a game, you may think it is more but it is just a game. ASC is not the be all and end all of Canada and does not speak for all of us.

A 4 hour course run by an organization that has issues with age verification, because lets face it it is done by volunteers, is meaningless. It simply restricts the influx of new players and strangles the sport.

This is not real steel firearms and we are not special forces operators.

Most certainly, proper weapons clearing before entering teh safe area shoudl be enforced and is at hour field, mag out, semi fire 3 or 4 shots to ensure the weapon is clear, mag in pocket gun on safe. Mags out of ggb's springers as per AEG. Everyone knows and follows the rules, older players and admin remind the new guys no course required.

Safe briefing prior to all games for everyone out side the setup area with no guns not mags. Once agian no course required.

We run a basic training once a year for the new guys to learn a little better tactics and movement, BUT they need to have played a few games to understand the value.

We also have days we make the game brutally lopsided, everyone against 5 to 7 older timers, when we run them around for a while due to better communications, movement and fire control they get the idea really fast.

Same thing no course, pass on the important stuff make your games interesting and the new guys will improve.

Point in case we had a game this last weekend with mostly newer players vs experienced players. The new guys representing a "Somali militia" on their own accord they decided, with the admins permission, to go with blue jeans, bright shirts, night shirts etc. Made for a fun day for those of us on the Spec ops team.

They had lots of problems to start but by the end of the day were functioning more like a team.

Cut these guys some slack, they will play somewhere whether you like it or not, so make it accessible keep the good and hope you do not get too many losers. So far in 6 years only 2 real tools, the rest either kept playing or moved on, which by the way is typical of the 17 to 22 or so age group.

You want a stable group get guys in their 30's or older, we just need to get out of the house.

[Danke]

With the various factions in the world of Canadian Airsoft I think it would be best to start out a new layer of qualification as a voluntary process.

Just like age verificaction it's not mandatory but adds another level of credability to the individual player.

I would need to be some sort of online or other easily disseminated procedure that can go cross country on it's own vs. the players coming to one or two fields that are provinces away.

[IceTray]

You know what, yea.
It doesn't have to be manditory - have it suggested.
Keep the whole test thing, as elaborate as one wants(Have it vary slightly). Although when it comes time for someone to host an event, they can choose; if someone wishes to attend, they must have had completed said process. If they have not, they will not be able to attend.

This is something that can potentially work. It leaves it open to everyone, there may still be games hosted where hosts don't require attendees to have completed this process, and there may be games where completion of this process is manditory.
Over time, theres a chance that'll take over and most if not all games will require players have been through the process. Except for newbie days, I suppose.

[pusangani]

heck, I don't see why it can't be on a geographical basis at first, if Toronto has a problem, then they can institute it etc.

alot of guys from the more rural areas don't see this new trend as a problem and in fact might not have had any problems, which is why they don't see a need for this requirement, and they are entitled to their opinions

if this is the case, I vote yes for GTA/ON indoctrination requirements.

[IceTray]

Originally Posted by pusangani

if this is the case, I vote yes for GTA/ON indoctrination requirements.

From some certain past experiances, also voting yes for GTA/ON.

[Adrenalineguy]

The truth is.
We cannot get enough Black guns in the country for every one fasts enough.........
As a retailer that sells $400,000 of paintball junk I can’t believe how hard it is to get good Airsoft product.
Penalizing players that buy legally imported product seems, wrong. Don’t we want people that wish to ad bide by the rules?
What I like about Airsoft is that it is a man’s sport. men do not have much left.
It really is the man, not the gun. Forgot to underline man,,, There Man

Your all right in your own way's. Shinney has a great idea, maybe it's not a requirement to play every where. You should want to be Elite or at least you should want to strive to be.. An Air soft pal would make a player a bit more so. What a field or team requires is up to them.
Elitist isn't healthy in a growing sport... You can be proud to be part of the Elite

[Rumpel Felt]

I will personally not cave to the 'clear gun' thing. Hell I never caved to the plastic thing either; always avoided TM guns.

To me, the point of airsoft is to simulate reality with the guns as close as possible. I don't even like resorting to AEG`s really. And I despise highcaps.

Gear I'm not so concerned about. I rarely have proper attire but the guns are what matter. Anyone can dress up in the most hardcore gear but then go and play paintball. Same with using what is essecially a hopper for a magazine. If you aren't going to have it realistic with the guns, why bother? If it wasn't for the guns and the taboo that goes along with them, I might as well just go play paintball.

Let us not cave to using what really are complete toys with a bit of a dangerous property. Yeah, airsoft is exactly that. But at least the 'real' stuff you know....looks real. And I'm not really at all up in arms for painting clear plastic either. Bye bye realistic feels and finishes for the companies that care to try and imitate them too....

If clearsoft crap or even clear reciever stuff becomes the norm then I guess I'll be taking up real guns and stuff for hobby and collecting.

[kalnaren]

The idea of a course (especially a 4-hour course) is kindof over the top and totally unnecessary. Pretty much everyone who plays airsoft never had any kind of "course" and they play just fine. Many newbies who pick up a halfbreed come out and play and fit right in.

The issue is that, a year ago, for Joe Somebody to get an airsoft gun they had to jump through hoops, get AV'd (which meant if the AVer felt the dude was a schmuck he could refuse to verify), then order on the classifieds and wait anywhere from a few weeks to several months before they had an AEG. This had the effect of weeding out the very casual player that has no desire to participate properly.

Now, as someone mentioned it (I think it was Crunch) the AV status really means fuck all. Any dumbass can get an airsoft gun. This has result in more dumbasses with airsoft guns. Of course, we've said time and time before, Age Verifacation is only an ASC policy and isn't for policing airsoft.

What's needed is game players with the balls to report stuipidness and hosts with the balls to do something about it. If someone is being a fucktard, take them aside, explain things to them, and if they are still being a fucktard, kick them off the field. Post their names on ASC for public ridicule. They'll shape up pretty quick after that -and if they don't, they'll run out of places to play real quick. The airsoft community in Canada is still pleanty small enough to accomplish that.

Second, reinstate a minimum equipment requirement for games (I say "reinstate" because this used to be done but it seems noone does it anymore). You want to play a game? Show up with some BDU's and no n00b-caps. $250 will get you two sets of BDU's and a bunch of magazines (well.. usually ). "Oh but I can't afford it!" Tough shit. Airsoft is an expensive hobby. We stopped telling people the "set aside $1,000 to get into it" because every time we did a few people who managed to get good deals on stuff would come in and be like "No you can do it for less blablabla you don't need that much blablabla." Fuck that. Hobbies are expensive. EVERY hobby has a minimum level of equipment required -whether it be model building, Radio Control Planes/Cars/Boats/Tanks, Biking, whatever- why the hell should airsoft be any different?

Third, have "newbie days" where new and aspiring players can come out and talk to those of us who have been playing for a long time, where they can ask their questions. It's also where we can EXPLAIN all this shit to them and tell them that "Yes, this IS a hobby, and there ARE expected standards."

Honestly, we can't blame newbies and halfbreeds for all of this.. we've let our own standards drop considerably. A lot of shit that goes on now would never have been tolerated a few years ago.

Oh and one more thing: If playing with a black gun, proper BDU's, and a proper LBV make me an elitist, good. I didn't get into airsoft to run around in civies with a clear gun.

[Doc]

this may have been suggested already, (i read the first 10 pages, then skipped to the last) but what about a system like the "trader rating" system we have set up now. have something like a "Player Quality" or "Player Reputation". it worked for our classifieds, weeded out all the flaky sellers/buyers.

maybe make it so only hosts could write down public comments, like "player was removed from game due to safety issues." or "player was repeatedly warned not to take head shots", etc.

just a idea...

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Doc1987

this may have been suggested already, (i read the first 10 pages, then skipped to the last) but what about a system like the "trader rating" system we have set up now. have something like a "Player Quality" or "Player Reputation". it worked for our classifieds, weeded out all the flaky sellers/buyers.

maybe make it so only hosts could write down public comments, like "player was removed from game due to safety issues." or "player was repeatedly warned not to take head shots", etc.

just a idea...

Unecessary. The very vast majority of airsoft players, new and old alike, are fine people to play with.

What we need is to stop being pussies and start calling fucktards on fucktard behaviour, and to restablish standards in games.

[Mr.Shiney]

But why not establish the standards before the games, that is the entire purpose of this thread. Simply to allow the standards to be established before New or Suspect Players get on the field.

Why not give the "Fucktard" a chance to learn how not to be a "Fucktard" before he gets on the field. Allow them to learn Safe Handling, Field Rules, Milsim Rules, Club Rules before they suit up and head out.

Regardless if it is 4 hours or 1 hour, it does not matter. Everyone here has missed the point. It is not about the colour of your AEG/GBB. It is not about the lenght of time the training session should be. It is not about Hard Core versus a pick up game.

It is about setting and maintaining a standard. To make sure that all new comers or persons who do not display proper behaviour are given a chance to learn how not to make the mistakes in a structured format.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Mr.Shiney

But why not establish the standards before the games, that is the entire purpose of this thread. Simply to allow the standards to be established before New or Suspect Players get on the field.

Why not give the "Fucktard" a chance to learn how not to be a "Fucktard" before he gets on the field. Allow them to learn Safe Handling, Field Rules, Milsim Rules, Club Rules before they suit up and head out.

Regardless if it is 4 hours or 1 hour, it does not matter. Everyone here has missed the point. It is not about the colour of your AEG/GBB. It is not about the lenght of time the training session should be. It is not about Hard Core versus a pick up game.

It is about setting and maintaining a standard. To make sure that all new comers or persons who do not display proper behaviour are given a chance to learn how not to make the mistakes in a structured format.

We never used to do that, and didn't have problems. In the game threads the rules would be layed out, they'd be gone over again at the game before it started, end of story.

[shiftsup]

One thing I am doing to make new players more aware of what is expected is renting out an affordable package.

I offer to rent out a black gun aeg and gbb pistol package with multiple low cap mags for the AEG. I even supply the bb's and propane. All for less than the price of a case of beer.

This allows a new player to play skirmishes at the local field for $60 for the day or evening.

During the time I spend with the rental player I would mention safety and what's expected. Since the new player is using my table space to get bb's and propane I do have the chance to make game related conversation.

If the new player ends up being a jerk I simply won't re-rent to them.

I hardly make money off of this. Financially, it's basically a break even deal. I get to play for "free" and a new player gets to do more than run around with an AEG with a hi cap mag. And hopefully they learn something.