TRADE ISSUE - BCAC J-AIR

[Scarecrow]

None of the information regarding shipping is relevant. Both parties have each others promised property, so no promises were broken there, there were only minor inconveniences. Goldman explained himself in this regard. Since the timing of the shipping has no bearing on the current problem, I'd put that aside and address the condition of the items.

I'd still like to hear from J-AIR on the problems he found with the M14. If there is a CP claim to be made, it should be made. If not, then he can't really complain can he? Similarly if there is an internal problem with the M14 that suggests it has been compromised before shipping, that should be discussed as well. The fact that J-AIR has not come forward to offer any information makes his claims appear to be a dismissive smear rather than a legitimate problem he seeks to rectify. If my rep were on the line, I would be very forthcoming with information about it.

[Bunny]

Originally Posted by Goldman

- Last weekend I returned home and cracked open the body ,only to find the AEG lacks a nozzle. It is very clear that the brass tube from the cylinder head was protruding from the mechbox ,without the black plastic nozzle that should be there allowing to fire. I have not yet been able to drop the M4 off with a gun-tech to get a more detailed report, but I fear further problems within the AEG itself.

You had asked him to rush ship it so you could have it for a game that weekend. You got it in time and played with it, and your only comment after that was that the ris came loose. If it had no nozzle, it wouldn't have fired a shot. And yet no mention of it to J-Air (who apparently has every pm still). Surely you fired a shot during this game you played? Thus, it had a nozzle when you got it.

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by Bunny

You had asked him to rush ship it so you could have it for a game that weekend. You got it in time and played with it, and your only comment after that was that the ris came loose. If it had no nozzle, it wouldn't have fired a shot. And yet no mention of it to J-Air (who apparently has every pm still). Surely you fired a shot during this game you played? Thus, it had a nozzle when you got it.

I didn't attend the game that weekend, you can ask the game host. My ride fell through. I had wanted it so I could attend the game if everything else worked out, but it didn't. That is why I didn't report the nozzle problem until I separated the receivers to check the MB for cracks.

EDIT -

Also you'll notice that the FPS limit at that field is 350, when J-Air claims the AEG shoots 380, thus i wouldn't have been able to use it, even if I was able to attend.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Bunny

You had asked him to rush ship it so you could have it for a game that weekend. You got it in time and played with it, and your only comment after that was that the ris came loose. If it had no nozzle, it wouldn't have fired a shot. And yet no mention of it to J-Air (who apparently has every pm still). Surely you fired a shot during this game you played? Thus, it had a nozzle when you got it.

If you read carefully, his comments are not limited to the nozzle, which as Bigmatty so rightly pointed out, an experienced gunsmith would not have missed. This is just one of the many items that has to be addressed by J-Air. I would respectfully suggest that rather than speculate on Goldman's actions or J-Air's that we hear from J-Air on this. We've heard enough from Goldman, we're waiting for to hear from J-Air, other than his friends posting about what a wonderfully competent gunsmith he is and that his character is above this. Fine, he's well respect by you guys. Goldman is over here too. None of that is productive in trying to solve THIS trade.

Well, both those postulations (gunsmithing and honorable dealings) are at odds with what Goldman is holding. When asked to rectify the situation, J-Air (to my knowledge) flatly refused and then proceeded to tell Goldman why it was fair because of the problems he's got with the M14. So in other words, its okay to give Goldman these problems because the M14 arrived with problems, so therefore it should be an even swap? No. Thats not how it works.

As a seller or trader, if I've fucked up in some way, I make restitution. If Goldman is at fault for anything, he is accountable - and so is J-Air. What is being asked is for J-Air to come forward and discuss the matter in a productive manner to facilitate a fair solution. J-Air's concerns should be equally heard and BOTH parties should address one another's concerns in a fair manner. That what a responsible seller/trader does.

I'll make no bones about it, Goldman is a Wolf and if he fucked up on this in any way, he's not only accountable to J-Air, he is accountable to his TEAM. Trust me when I say thats a fair worse fate than anything J-Air can suffer from at his end of the continent. J-Air can be assured he will be treated fairly. I don't want to unfairly characterize him because I don't know him, but I will say if he is trying to pull a fast one, this won't be the end of it, not by a long shot.

[Bunny]

So you are saying you never fired it? You got a gun from someone you don't know and never fired it? You pm'd him after saying star mags don't fit very well in the CA body, but yet you never fired it before you took it apart? Cmon...
He says it's absolute bs there was no nozzle, and I believe him.

The peq issue again, you got a broken one that he told you was broken, and a new ics one. What's the issue again?

The 203 was a sun project, on a tm ris, on a ca gun. Not the most ideal setup, but you knew that going in. He'd used that gun many times with no issues, so if you broke it...

Scarecrow, I think the shipping is relevant, as it's part of the trail of untruth and bad faith. If someone was jerking my chain like that I'd be a little bitter over the whole thing as well. Personal resonsibility...

The m14 had the charging handle broken off and the whole thing looking like it had been kept underwater. Hey, so it's a CP issue, shit happens. You asked for pics on Friday, he said "no problem but I'm going away for the weekend", yet even though you knew he'd left you do all these posts here and on our boards over the weekend knowing that he'd gone away. He's back now, I'm sure you'll get pics. Dismissive smear my ass.

He says he shipped you a gun without problems and you broke it, you say otherwise, etc etc.

Perhaps you each have a reason to bitch? I get the feeling you are going to have to handle this one yourself Goldman, between you and him. He's a reasonable guy, perhaps try being reasonable in return. If you try and talk shit to him you're going to hit a brick wall, I'll tell you that up front.

As Scarecrow said, if you two can't come to an arangement, perhaps you should each return the other's property (are you already parting it out?). If you broke the gun, own up to it, get it fixed, and ship it back. The game is all about honour and being overly honest, so too should this transaction.

[Bigmatty]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Bigmatty, is this your personal position, or does it represent the opinion of the admin staff which moved the post. Is there someone at that end willing to mediate this? Ie: inspect the gun and listen to the party impartially?.

My personal opinion is that the gun was always taken care of....I am not here taking sides but I do know for a fact he knows his way around a gun. I have both used and been shot by that gun, it was a laser

I am not that local to inspect the gun...thus, as I said I have no time to physically mediate this. I am sure when Jair becomes availiable he will talk to him.

I do however find it strange that he is parting out this gun ( the 203 and shells) even before posting this up...sorry it just strikes me as odd.

There are two sides to every story, so far we have heard one.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Bunny

So you are saying you never fired it? You got a gun from someone you don't know and never fired it? You pm'd him after saying star mags don't fit very well in the CA body, but yet you never fired it before you took it apart? Cmon...
He says it's absolute bs there was no nozzle, and I believe him.

That does not negate that fact that Goldman found otherwise. Some of the other things you have said J-Air should address. Leave that for him.

Originally Posted by Bunny

He'd used that gun many times with no issues, so if you broke it...

Scarecrow, I think the shipping is relevant, as it's part of the trail of untruth and bad faith. If someone was jerking my chain like that I'd be a little bitter over the whole thing as well. Personal resonsibility...

I agree there is a case of personal responsibility on both sides here. So far I've seen Goldman come back and address each of your statements. Your opinions about 'untruth and bad faith' as well as implying that Goldman broke it have no business in this thread and I'd kindly ask you to adjust your tone. We're trying to establish facts. The fact remains that the primary complaints are the conditions of the items as BOTH parties received their items.

If you don't have facts to contribute, kind back off the posts and if you can contact J-Air and direct him to this thread to reply, that would be the most helpful thing you could do at this stage. Otherwise, this thread will head for the trash and nothing will get resolved.

Originally Posted by Bunny

The m14 had the charging handle broken off and the whole thing looking like it had been kept underwater. Hey, so it's a CP issue, shit happens. You asked for pics on Friday, he said "no problem but I'm going away for the weekend", yet even though you knew he'd left you do all these posts here and on our boards over the weekend knowing that he'd gone away. He's back now, I'm sure you'll get pics. Dismissive smear my ass.

If there is a CP issue, it should be addressed. That has been stated. As far as I can tell, its Monday evening and we're still waiting to hear from J-Air or see pictures. Goldman will be more than happy to support J-Air's claims with CP if indeed there was shipping damage.

As far as dismissive smear, re-read what I said - without J-Air coming forward IT LOOKS like that. As I said previously I don't know the guy so I really can't say one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Bunny

He says he shipped you a gun without problems and you broke it, you say otherwise, etc etc.

Perhaps you each have a reason to bitch? I get the feeling you are going to have to handle this one yourself Goldman, between you and him. He's a reasonable guy, perhaps try being reasonable in return. If you try and talk shit to him you're going to hit a brick wall, I'll tell you that up front.

I would give both parties the benefit of the doubt here Bunny and let them exchange their own observations with either of us characterizing them. 'trying to talk shit to him' - again, I think J-Air can address the tone of their communications as well Goldman can simply by releasing the PMs. I'd suggest that the only way to make headway here is to keep the tone civil and stick to facts. Bunny, again, you're making characterizations that are not productive.

Originally Posted by Bunny

As Scarecrow said, if you two can't come to an arangement, perhaps you should each return the other's property (are you already parting it out?). If you broke the gun, own up to it, get it fixed, and ship it back. The game is all about honour and being overly honest, so too should this transaction.

Actually, the gun has been boxed and bagged for photography and inspection by a mutually agreed upon local gunsmith. As Goldman said, he did not have the opportunity to field the item and his observations are via inspection. I recommend we again, stick to facts. The color commentary won't resolve anything.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Bigmatty

There are two sides to every story, so far we have heard one.

Bingo.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Bigmatty

I do however find it strange that he is parting out this gun ( the 203 and shells) even before posting this up...sorry it just strikes me as odd.

Nothing odd about it, Goldman wants to get moving on getting his primary up and running and finance the changes/repairs that need to be made. His last communication with J-Air indicated J-Air wasn't interested in addressing the problem(s). I've advised Goldman otherwise, particularly if J-Air has concerns too.

Nothing has been sold and all items are still in Goldman's posession. I've already advised him not to part the property out until he discusses the situation with J-Air to a conclusion one way or the other. I was only apprised of this dispute Saturday night and gotten into more deeply this evening.

[Bigmatty]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Actually, the gun has been boxed and bagged for photography and inspection by a mutually agreed upon local gunsmith. As Goldman said, he did not have the opportunity to field the item and his observations are via inspection. I recommend we again, stick to facts. The color commentary won't resolve anything.

Hold the phone there mate,

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=23202

it is being parted out...look at the dates....gimme a break...he traded a gun for a gun, and is now trying to get back some money and sell some the package off. Whilst I am not here pointing fingers that seems a bit odd to me.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Bigmatty

Hold the phone there mate,

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=23202

it is being parted out...look at the dates....gimme a break...he traded a gun for a gun, and is now trying to get back some money and sell some the package off. Whilst I am not here pointing fingers that seems a bit odd to me.

Read my last. As I said, I've advised otherwise ("the gun has been boxed and bagged for photography and inspection by a mutually agreed upon local gunsmith."). I still think both parties have an opportunity to resolve their differences.

[lt_poncho]

Mike - I am going to buy you a new out of the box gun and make you keep the frikkin thing....

[Goldman]

Okay, bear with me this is going to be a long one.

Bunny:

PEQ – I was told the ICS one I received was supposed to be mint, IE: the NOT broken one, yet it was broken on arrival. I have NOT received a non-broken PEQ from J-Air.

The M203 – If the mounting was unstable, he should have stated that to me, not saying its in good condition, this type of problem makes an AEG unusable in my opinion, and as such I would list that.

The M14 – Again, why did he not contact me about this when it happened? Why did he WAIT until I confronted him about the problems with the M4 to do so? He had ample time after the arrival of the M14, and even during our PM exchange on Friday to do so. By making me wait until it is “convenient” for him to do so, it would make me wonder if he is in fact staging the M14 to look broken, when it was not.

I tried being reasonable, In fact unlike him, I didn't insult him in every private message regarding a problem with the M4. I am merely at my wits end, as he simply has decided to wash his hands of this, and effectively tell me to bugger off.

Bunny and BigMatty:

I am parting the AEG off already so that I can purchase other parts that will give me a functioning AEG to play with. Unlike most people on these boards, I can't afford more than one primary, and as it stands I've been without a working AEG for quite some time now. I have game, and team obligations that require me to have a functioning AEG. As such I'm working the lemons I was given, to try to make lemonade.

I posted the sales up before this thread, as I'd hoped J-Air would have been reasonable in dealing with me, instead of stone walling me. As such I am trying to make the quickest possible solution to this problem. At this point I am not willing to accept the M14 in return, as I have no way of trusting that it will be returned in the same condition as it was shipped. Again, I ask if there was a problem with it on arrival, why did J-Air wait to bring it up until AFTER I noticed the numerous problems with the M4? It just doesn't add up.

I would like to see J-Air post here with his information, instead of a third party with skewed information.

Mike

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by lt_poncho

Mike - I am going to buy you a new out of the box gun and make you keep the frikkin thing....

His ears are already burning on that one...

[Bigmatty]

Tell me again then why he didnt remove his for sale thread.....if that (the items were bagged and tagged) was infact the case then the add should have been removed..its been there 4 days......this is getting way off topic but he can edit, make a note WRT the state of it etc....


EDIT nevermind......I will await word for Jair on this as we have one side already we will await the other