Most reliable Gbbr

[Brian McIlmoyle]

I have about 20 WE GBBRs all models except the M14

Reliability is not as good as a good quality AEG .. properly tuned..

enjoyment is much higher in use than AEG in my opinion.

the best reason to use GBBR-- particularly the WE versions, ease of maintenance and repair. Availability of Parts is good, and even a goob like me can fix them and replace parts. I have never even attempted opening a AEG.. but I have torn down and rebuilt lots of WE M4s

use of RS parts to boost durability is a bonus as well

[Huron]

Eeyore and Wildcard are hitting a good point with GBBRs. Because they're relative newcomers (gas-in-mag, open chamber systems - we all know classic airsoft were HPA blowbacks), the major hurdle in regards to improving and maintaining reliability and competitive performance is community knowledge of the particular system/brand you choose to buy.

In some circles, that may make WA/G&P or KJW the prime candidate, but on ASC we appear to have quite a large number of WE open and closed chamber users, as indicated by the encyclopedic threads on the two systems. This makes it a lot easier to diagnose and solve problems with the gun, and in my opinion put it ahead of other brands as an option for a GBBR, hence my purchasing one. If you go WE open chamber and run propane, there will be no shortage of info on how to get it running well enough to game against AEG wielding players, and in that respect KJW and WA would be close behind. The KWA system looks promising though, but time will tell. The brand itself also has its own forum, so that should help for finding information on upgrading the gun.

[m102404]

A buddy brought his 416 over the other night...two body pins, 1 fore end screw, 1 barrel nut, 1 chamber screw and the whole upper was apart the crud picked out of his chamber.

In the same 5min of doing that...I would have barely have gotten the grip off an M4 AEG.

That's the ease of working on a GBBR vs. an AEG.

All airsoft stuff needs maintenance. If either platform is working well...then it'll just need it a whole lot less frequently. But with both platforms gremlin guns are just PITAs.

Most reliable...it comes down to the mags and how they interact with the gun (ie knocker/nozzle/etc...).

Some systems have inherent weaknesses...more design flaws than anything.

With regards to "upgrade" parts....I have a bag full of CNC steel hammers/sears/knockers/etc... None of them get used because they aren't really needed. Beware of mixing in parts between brands.

I'm fully convinced that a little "slop" is a good thing with GBBRs.

[Danke]

What are the top five things to mod on a GBBR to get the best accuracy and reliability?

Let's break down the most common platforms and brands. WE Open and Closed bolt. WA and it's copies. KJW. and any others.

I know the NPAS is nearly a must have. What about others like hopup rubbers or chambers?

[Fox62]

Originally Posted by Danke

Let's break down the most common platforms and brands. WE Open and Closed bolt. WA and it's copies. KJW. and any others.

I know the NPAS is nearly a must have. What about others like hopup rubbers or chambers?

I'd rather not put a NPAS if I'm set on certain FPS. I'd prefer to change the valve/valve spring. Bucking is a must for the WE open bolt (Nine Ball, VSR Modify, VSR PDI, Falcon), as the stock one has shitty air seal and range (max. 50 metres with a 420 pecision inner. Also the mags; either Gen 2 M4, or the VN Style M4 mags (for the STANAG platforms).

Also, unlubricated propane is the way to go. Green gas will mess with the hop up as lube gets into the bucking, not allowing the mound to give enough spin effect.

For reliability in the SCAR, the only must is changing the bolt to a Modify steel one, the rest works for thousands of rounds.


Fox.

[Drake]

Two WE M4s here, very happy with em.

Not much to do out of the box (add an NPAS, drop in a heavier buffer if you want more recoil, lube like your gf is asking for first time anal).

Replacement parts are available. I have mixed feelings about the upgraded steel parts; seems like you need to start upgrading everything else once you add one piece (like upgrading a TM pistol) and given the cost and failure rate of the stock parts it almost seems more cost-effective just replacing with stock parts if/when something breaks.

I have a spare complete bolt group and a spare trigger group, both ready to drop in. Short of backing over the gun with my truck, I think this covers most problems I could encounter during a game and the gun could be back up in a matter of minutes.

The CO2 mags have been extremely reliable (and non-leaky); the new (v2) propane mags are supposed to be better as well. I generally prefer CO2.

The only major hiccup on the WE M4s is the stupid bolt catch. Having the bolt lock consistently on an empty mag is not reliable. But I consider this minor and just like AEGs you can tell when the gun is dry firing just by listening to it. If something has to be wonky I'd rather it be that; otherwise the gun is a laser (even the 7" SBR), feeds and shoots reliably and is a joy to play with.

[unknownvariable]

Originally Posted by Drake

Replacement parts are available. I have mixed feelings about the upgraded steel parts; seems like you need to start upgrading everything else once you add one piece (like upgrading a TM pistol) and given the cost and failure rate of the stock parts it almost seems more cost-effective just replacing with stock parts if/when something breaks.
.

Just to add, if you replace just one part with steel, it is harder than the stock parts and when it slams against the remaining stock part, you will have additional wear. That is how you get stuck with replacing everything along the line of contact/wear.

Case in point, a friend upgraded his bolt and buffer, and within little time, he had the buffer slam right through the back of the buffer tube making a nice clean hole.

A bunch of opinions here.. WE M4 GBBR INTERNALS REVIEW - YouTube

[m102404]

1. I'd disregard the WE closed bolt generations. They're obsolete. They're still out there, but to be honest they are not worth it looking forward. There's bunches of info already out there on mods/tweaks...some better than others. The #1 Upgrade to a WE closed bolt is...to convert it to an open bolt.

2. WE OB...there's only one mod I feel that's a must do to the rifle...the rest is proper check up/maintenance type stuff or mods to the mags
- teflon tape (plumbers tape) the barrel/hopup rubber so that it seats/fits the chamber securely

3. WE CB/OB maintenance/mods
- use gasket maker (blue or black) to seal the back plate of the mags. Wait until fully cured. Then cycle a min of 2-3 mags worth of gas to clear any residue. If you don't clear them afterwards, you'll end up with silicone/gasket gunk everywhere and will have to strip down/clean it all. I purposely did not do this to see what would happen with a dozen + mags over a couple of games. No cleaning...just a bit more oil/grease before games. Eventual build up will slow down the nozzle enough to cause short/erratic cycling...a very thin layer will deposit on everything attracting dirt/dust. The residue will coat your chamber/hopup rubber and inner barrel. Nothing busted...just takes a lot of scrubbing/wiping to get it all clean. Just did that the other day...runs like brand new again.
- light silicone oil is great for any rotating/bearing/touching parts. Heavier silicone oil is fine too. PTFE grease is fine on larger bearing/rolling parts. Light silicone oil added to propane (same as with pistols) is all that's needed between maintenance.
- the retention cap that holds the buffer retaining pin into the lower receiver can work itself out...eventually crashing with the bolt. Remove, clean, loctite and never worry about it again.
- BB fragments should be picked out as soon as possible...otherwise they will either fracture the nozzle (same as with a GBB) or else prevent the bolt from fully chambering, locking up the gun
- loctite everything you don't want shaken loose off the gun. Mostly on sights/rails...but the grip screw, front sight screw and

Aside from an NPAS...I haven't done anything else to my personal stock WE M4. I've had/seen/fiddled with plenty of the "upgrade" steel parts...I don't think that they are necessary (they're pretty though) and at best I think they do nothing. If the parts/peices are fitting well there's very little wear on any of the engagement surfaces even after 1000's of rounds. The notorious Part#66 in early gens has long since been fixed in stock guns...so not really a worry anymore.

Re accuracy...once you're into the WE OB, the hopup/inner is very TM VSR10. So you've got a bunch of hopup rubber options...and nubs...and barrels to pick from. If you're cutting barrels...cut them properly. The OB hopup system is "hard"...there's little to no give in it (stock) so very fine adjustments are necessary or else it goes from not enough to too much hop. Changing rubbers/nubs has a dramatic effect on that.

If you really want to fiddle with range and accuracy I'd go extended barrel with a PDI hopup.

To summarize. Starting with a current OB WE M4...I'd:
1. strip it down
2. teflon tape the barrel/rubber for a good chamber fit
3. shim the inner and outer barrel if necessary(I can just fit a thin oring between mine...on a couple I can't fit much of anything)
4. reassemble..Loctite as I go
5. lube with silicone oil or PTFE grease as needed
6. seal back plates of mags

For me...the G&P WOC/WA system is all in the mags. The mags are just freakishly expensive. Internals durability is ok and you can definitely get some that really kick...but I found that the fun turns to suck when you start breaking expensive nozzles and bolts.

Can't comment on the KJW.

[White_knight]

no one mention the WE m14? it has way more recoil force the the m4 and IMO is more reliable. ive put thousands of rounds through mine and it has been my main gun for almost 3 months give or take a few games. the only major problem iv had with mine is that the op rod separated due to the rod section being pressure fit on to the charging handle portion. a little jb around the collar and its good as new. used it in a few games after without any sign of it happening again. also get an NPAS and some small washers, even with the Npas at full reduction it still shot 530fps with .20 on a 25c day. put some washers behind that and its shooting 450. the m14 is big, but everyone iv let shoot mine instantly wants one.

[Danke]

I'm running a stock open bolt WE CQBR. So far stock, I followed the pre-fire lube list and I've had to re-seal 2 magazines so far. It's only been out for about 6 games so far. And the end of the day I'll crack it open and air gun any grime off and then wipe and re-lube.

I've been hoping for more consistent hop though and the full under/over scenario is what I've got for sure. I'll try the soft bucking. I also built an extender so it's a bit easier to dial in the adjuster screw but you still have to crack it open. I am trying to work out a piece of cable that I can use as a flexible key so all I have to do is lock the bolt back and thread it in.

I wasn't sure if the hopup was just needing a bit more breaking in or if was time to start changing stuff.

[Fox62]

Originally Posted by Danke

I'm running a stock open bolt WE CQBR. So far stock, I followed the pre-fire lube list and I've had to re-seal 2 magazines so far. It's only been out for about 6 games so far. And the end of the day I'll crack it open and air gun any grime off and then wipe and re-lube.

I've been hoping for more consistent hop though and the full under/over scenario is what I've got for sure. I'll try the soft bucking. I also built an extender so it's a bit easier to dial in the adjuster screw but you still have to crack it open. I am trying to work out a piece of cable that I can use as a flexible key so all I have to do is lock the bolt back and thread it in.

I wasn't sure if the hopup was just needing a bit more breaking in or if was time to start changing stuff.

Heavier ammo...Modify or PDI bucking. All hop up problems solved.


Fox.

[Danke]

I'm running .30s which seemed to be the top tip from research. What are the other favorite weights?

[m102404]

Take an Allen key that fits and cut off one leg so it's just a straight piece. Take an empty ink part of a bic pen (or similar). Glue the stub of the Allen key into the flexible plastic ink thingy of the pen.

Rack the bolt back, engage bolt stop and bend in your new high tech tool and twiddle your hop up screw.

Then use the remainder of the Allen key to make one as a backup or for your buddy.

Then send a thank you pm to technosnob 'cause he's a genius




Re. Weights...mine loves 30's....big improvement even over 28's (which my PTW loves)

[Danke]

Nice! and you can roll it up and tuck it into a pistol grip or slip into a battery compartment if your stock has one.

[Eien]

I'm a idiot. Someone post a picture of it.