Clone this...Rebrand that...

[Swattiger]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

We've always said cheaper guns are cheap for a reason. If you want quilty + after market compatability, buy high end. This has always been true.

The brands which invest in research & development have my highest respect.

Clones are cheaper mainly they never develop but just copy other's, and also cut corners in their choice of materials and production. I really don't like them no matter how cheap they sound to be. It is just a torture to see a pile of non-functional airsoft guns in the closet.

[ThunderCactus]

I don't understand why anyone bases the quality of an airsoft gun on it's internals.
Honestly I couldn't think of a worse thing to base the quality of an airsoft gun on.

I got a newsflash for you guys, anything that's not a realsword or PTW has crap for stock internals. Sure some guns will shoot really well stock, but TM has been the only company with really consistent performance.
It's easy to upgrade internals, it's a significantly more difficult task to upgrade externals.
I've got a G&P 249, the stock internals are unarguably crap. The gears shafts are brittle, the piston reliability is hit and miss and the piston head is really weak. But it's got the toughest externals available on a 249, it's fully TM spec, and uses a superior AUG hop chamber. And $400 of internals later, it's 380fps of 1500rpm of 3 years problem free pure death bringing indestructible mayhem.

The quality of an airsoft gun, as rated by highly experienced gunsmiths, is as follows;

1) Is it marui spec? Because if it doesn't come with amazing internals, and you can't upgrade it, it's not worth buying

2) External quality. If it's gonna break when you drop it, use it to climb a wall, break a window, use it to get off the ground, fall on it, javelin it in anger, or if it's as solid as a wet noodle, it's not worth buying.

3) External compatibility. Because if you can't trick out your M4, what's the point?


The goal of new players is to buy a stock gun that shoots good out of the box.
The goal of vets is to buy the best damn shell possible, and upgrade everything internally.


So, if you want to save a lot of money on upgrades and buy a cheap entry level gun that doesn't break down and will last 4+ years and not lose all it's value, buy a TM.
If you're going to be upgrading it as it breaks, buy a KA, VFC, G&G, G&P, etc
If you want a gun that's super reliable, accurate, tough as a nail, and price is no object, get a PTW, or fully upgrade a KA or G&P.

That being said, I do agree G&P is really overpriced for what you get lol

[Boyso]

I disagree.

Most players will never even open their own AEGs. Most users just want something that can work out of the box.

Therefore, rating on Internals can be important to that group of players.

[kalnaren]

I also disagree with TC above. If internals didn't matter TM and JG guns would be way lower on the quality list than they actually are (JG bodies are nothing to brag about, but try and kill a stock JG gun... they don't die). Your ability to upgrade the internals with a minimum of part incompatibilities is just as important as the strength of the externals, IMO.

[ThunderCactus]

TM is a different category, it's specifically for people who don't play often or new people who aren't sure if they'll be playing for more than a season, want a low cost gun that's reliable and performs decently and doesn't lose half it's value after a year.

It's not a gun for serious players. Although you can upgrade it, it's a serious pain and much more expensive to fully upgrade than say a KA

[Swattiger]

TM is NOT a low cost brand. They invented AEG, and keep pioneering in many new areas. Their recent products are all full metal, with full trade marks, good range, good reliability, right of the box. AND not cheap. But very enjoyable and last for a long time if you do not mess with it's internals.

[Swattiger]

Originally Posted by Boyso

I disagree.

Most players will never even open their own AEGs. Most users just want something that can work out of the box.

Therefore, rating on Internals can be important to that group of players.

+1. Every airsoft AEG/rifle costs $200 + ( with shipping and tax), which is quite a lot of money for many people So it sounds stupid if we still need to invest more to make it work.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

TM is a different category, it's specifically for people who don't play often or new people who aren't sure if they'll be playing for more than a season, want a low cost gun that's reliable and performs decently and doesn't lose half it's value after a year.

It's not a gun for serious players. Although you can upgrade it, it's a serious pain and much more expensive to fully upgrade than say a KA

TM Guns are NOT hard to upgrade. Most aftermarket parts are made to TM spec and fit easily with little modification.

[ThunderCactus]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

TM Guns are NOT hard to upgrade. Most aftermarket parts are made to TM spec and fit easily with little modification.

Do you know how much it costs to upgrade a TM to 380fps without an ARS piston head? lol
You gotta buy a whole new mechbox =p

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

Do you know how much it costs to upgrade a TM to 380fps without an ARS piston head? lol
You gotta buy a whole new mechbox =p

Throwing in an M120 and metal bushings? Because that's what I did with my AUG. Less than $30.

[Devious Sinner]

Originally Posted by Boyso

I disagree.

Most players will never even open their own AEGs. Most users just want something that can work out of the box.

Therefore, rating on Internals can be important to that group of players.

+1, i belong in this group.

[Kozzie]

I agree with TC. When I buy a gun I look at externals and is it marui compatible. I generally try to stay away from proprietary parts and pot metal externals. But I play quite often so I don't mind sinking more money into a new gun to upgrade it internally if it happens to need it. Generally speaking it's cheaper and easier to upgrade internals so I want a gun with solid externals.

I can see though why someone would just want a gun that works well and will last out of the box, no fuss no muss. It just depends on the player I guess. When I bought my first gun thats what I wanted. But now that I'm beginning to tinker around inside my mechboxes my prospective has changed. I want tough, durable and realistic externals and I'll sort out the internals myself if they aren't good.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Styrak

Throwing in an M120 and metal bushings? Because that's what I did with my AUG. Less than $30.

On a TM Aug V3 box is fine but try doing that on a V2 MP5 or M4 it will destroy itself by your third game, TC is right in a way TM has been a benchmark for a lot of manufacturer that aim to be in the top of the class companies like Systema, King Arms, G&P, hence the cloning of TM parts and technology, however there are companies out there that puts out questionable products that was cloned from TM products as well, Some companies have even moved on from TM based models with products such as Systema PTW, ICS and Ares product but since they still new companies compared to some they do experience in some growing pains much like TM has in the past with issues such as propriety parts shortage, upgrades and of course quality assurance issue.

[ViR]

Just wait for Realsword to release M4 and all problems are solved!

I <3 RS (Except my first one which broke in 1st game lol!?!)

[Azathoth]

Originally Posted by Conker

TM AEGs are so 2008.

lol you mean 1994