Incident at SC Village

[Hectic]

Originally Posted by hollywood...

a waiver or not, that would be classified as assault with a weapon

^this^
Even in a game that involves "assault" as part of the rules, without watching the video just reading the thread it seemes a case of a premeditated attempt to injur someone intentionally. Obviously that is something the waiver doesn't cover. And I'm sure the establishment has clear rules posted somewhere about violence, racisim, and etc.. so I'd be prety sure the victim has some course of action.
And yeah, this is disgusting. I loved airsoft when I first started. Everyone knew everyone. It was like a canada wide "small town" where folks were accountable for their actions. Nowadays there are too many anonymous folks around who don't care about the community that was built over years by those who were here before us "new guys"

[Skeletor]

Okay, I will constructively deconstruct why I think his arguments are poor with regard to this incident.

1) "Is it necessary to involve the 'authorities' into every situation (sic)?"

When that situation is clearly legal assault and/or battery in the state of California (and Ontario) it is necessary to involve the authorities. As Renegade pointed out, when your intention changes from playing the game to hurting a person, you are assaulting them. Since you are using an airsoft gun, you are assaulting them with a weapon.

The target was clearly a minor. He was clearly in pain. It was clear that the perpetrator has zero remorse about what he did, attempts to justify it, and meant to hurt the victim. Very clearly assault, by the legal definition thereof.

He committed a crime. When a crime is committed, you involve the authorities. Why are they called authorities? Because they have the agency (the authority you might even say) to punish that person for what they did.

2) "It seems to me it just lengthens the time kids are infantilized in N. America."

What does this even mean? Are you trying to say that it is infantilizing to report crimes and violence? How so?

Because I would say it is infantilizing to try to solve a petty dispute with violence. Mature people solve their grievances through discourse and the use of law, not violence. Might does not make right.

3) It was an internal community dispute and was settled.

This is false on the face of it. An "internal resolution" to this dispute would have involved the parties in question resolving their grievances without causing bodily harm. Being a member of a community doesn't supersede the law. We don't live in little tribes anymore.

4) Are we going to charge every hockey player who fights with assault?

This is a straw man argument. Yes, airsoft and hockey are both sports. But airsoft is not hockey and hockey is not airsoft. Do you want to talk about infantilizing? What's more infantile than a couple of grown men punching each other in the middle of a game that's about putting a puck in a net (and not about punching each other)?

[Red Dot]

The video link is now private however I think I saw the video in question... the guy blasted a kid in the back in front of a group of players.

It's sad, kinda like that video last year of the raging parent wanting to fuck up everyone at the field because his son got into a physical altercation or another one where a kid goes full auto into a players head because he didn't call his hit.

We have to be vigilant about zero tolerance for this behaviour here locally. Last year I noticed a video from Mach1 field where a guy kicked the cover a guy was hiding behind because he believed he didn't call his hit. We as players have to point that out to game control / refs as it unsportsmanlike and frankly dangerous.

Robo Murray had a great resolution to a sticky situation at one of his AMS ops, he didn't argue with the dude but got a ref explained his situation and the ref mediated it to both players. Didn't hurt that he was filming so had proof of the incident.

When you feel rage building that's when you need to step back ASAP to avoid doing /saying something that might come back to bite you in the ass.

[RainyEyes]

The difference between this incident and playing airsoft on the field is that i believe they weren't playing and on a break. Shooting people while game is not in play and in a safe zone = automatic ban. Minimum. Absolutely no reason to shoot someone when not in play.

By the way, I downloaded the youtube video which is now private. I would be willing to upload it if people are interested in seeing it, however unethical it may be.

[c3sk]

I'm sure it won't be long until the video is mirrored and reposted. Things like this don't just go away, no matter how hard they are suppressed.

From my understanding, there has been a history of this type of action taking place at the SC field in Cali for some time. This isn't an isolated incident out there. Our fields have a pretty strict stance on it from my experience. Simply put.. we don't tolerate this kind of bullshit. There is a history of people losing their shit at games, and it being quelled before it spirals out of control due to cooler heads prevailing.

As both individuals in this incident were minors, I'm sure the parents involved are looking to charge, hell I would be.

I won't be playing at SC Village in Cali anytime soon, that's for sure.

Originally Posted by Red Dot

The video link is now private however I think I saw the video in question... the guy blasted a kid in the back in front of a group of players.

It's sad, kinda like that video last year of the raging parent wanting to fuck up everyone at the field because his son got into a physical altercation or another one where a kid goes full auto into a players head because he didn't call his hit.

We have to be vigilant about zero tolerance for this behaviour here locally. Last year I noticed a video from Mach1 field where a guy kicked the cover a guy was hiding behind because he believed he didn't call his hit. We as players have to point that out to game control / refs as it unsportsmanlike and frankly dangerous.

Robo Murray had a great resolution to a sticky situation at one of his AMS ops, he didn't argue with the dude but got a ref explained his situation and the ref mediated it to both players. Didn't hurt that he was filming so had proof of the incident.

When you feel rage building that's when you need to step back ASAP to avoid doing /saying something that might come back to bite you in the ass.

[Cliffradical]

I think there's a psychological/ social break here;

What airsoft is and is not has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Violent retribution for perceived grievances is always wrong.

In very specific, contained, and limited spaces like some hockey leagues, it may be permitted, but it is still not right or even necessary.

Willingly causing harm to another person is a criminal act, and should be treated as such. There is no room for "deserved it or not" in here. Maybe the alleged victim deserved to be excluded from social interaction with the accused, maybe not. Maybe they shouldn't have gone into, or been permitted to go into the same arena with each other, maybe not.
Regardless, physical retribution for perceived grievances is beyond the pale, unacceptable behavior, and demands intervention by law enforcement by it's very nature.

There were hypothetically thousands of options available to the accused in terms of potential conflict resolution, and he allegedly chose uncontrolled rage. That is not the choice of a rational individual capable of fully realized empathy or personal consequences. The Police, and the Courts will determine whether or not that is true, and that's exactly how it's supposed to work.

The main point is that this should never have happened in the first place.

[Boche]

Originally Posted by Skeletor

Also Boche I hope your comments were facetious. Because if they weren't they were seriously stupid.

Partly facetious. And I appreciate you calling my comments stupid and not me, that was kind of you (honestly, not being facetious!)

My knee-jerk comment was spurned on by the comment by some bystander in the video who said ''someone should call the police'' or something like that. Just settle it yourself. Instead of laying on the ground screaming, get up and go square to square. Has anyone watched those dash cam videos from Russia? Someone cuts someone else off, they get out of their cars, fight for 10 secs and then get back in their cars and drive off. It's not ideal, but seems to be an effective way to burn off the bad feelings.

I don't know, maybe my headspace isn't coming through?!?! Recently, my nephew turned 8 and he still has to sit in a car booster seat because he's not quite 80lbs!! How long are we going to keep our kids infants?

Again, my $0.02, if it doesn't conform to the consensus, I'm sorry.

[Cliffradical]

My Russian/ Israeli buddy was so happy to be in Canada because he finally lived in a place where you could have a beer on a beach or get through rush hour traffic without having to have a fistfight.

[AnthonyG]

For me the problem is less about what he did, than is is about where and the circumstances under why he did it.

This definitely isn't the first instance of stupid kids "full-auto-ing" each other at point blank range. There are dozens of videos of kids (usually paintball) full-auto-ing each other to see how long they can take it.

The fact he was acting maliciously is the problem. He blatantly broke rules, recorded it and posted it online.

I'm worried that media will pick this up as some sort of proof that airsoft is dangerous, when really it's stupid people like this that are dangerous.

[JKxWKW]

His response... "what..?"

This should really be looked into. His reason is because the kid burned his team patch? Pretty pathetic.

[pestobanana]

Originally Posted by Boche

Is it necessary to bring the ''authorities'' into every situation? It seems to me it just lengthens the time kids are infantilized in N. America. It was an internal community dispute and was settled. Are we going to charge every hockey player who fights with assault?

You don't charge hockey players for getting in fights. But you know, Todd Bertuzzi was charged for taking a cheap shot and breaking a guy's neck. I guess that's another internal NHL dispute to be settled, no need for a lawsuit, it only ended Steve Moore's hockey career.

[waylander]

Originally Posted by Boche

Partly facetious. And I appreciate you calling my comments stupid and not me, that was kind of you (honestly, not being facetious!)

My knee-jerk comment was spurned on by the comment by some bystander in the video who said ''someone should call the police'' or something like that. Just settle it yourself. Instead of laying on the ground screaming, get up and go square to square. Has anyone watched those dash cam videos from Russia? Someone cuts someone else off, they get out of their cars, fight for 10 secs and then get back in their cars and drive off. It's not ideal, but seems to be an effective way to burn off the bad feelings.

I don't know, maybe my headspace isn't coming through?!?! Recently, my nephew turned 8 and he still has to sit in a car booster seat because he's not quite 80lbs!! How long are we going to keep our kids infants?

Again, my $0.02, if it doesn't conform to the consensus, I'm sorry.

This is a bit confusing, you're saying "How long are we going to keep our kids infants?" yet don't agree with taking this to the authorities.... that's counter intuitive. IF you're serious that we shouldn't treat the kids as infants then they need to understand the consequences of certain actions because they are NOT acceptable. Unfortunately, a lot of parents haven't been doing that. They let their kids watch whatever movies on TV/youtube and play whatever video games they want.... do what they want when they want. So kids are growing up without consequences and now you're saying that for this assault there should be no consequence. I completely disagree with your comparison of guys in Russia getting in a fist fight then walking away. That is NOT the answer here, especially when the shooter looked like he was a good foot or two taller.

The consequence to THIS action is calling the authorities, that is the RIGHT answer because if this kid thinks that his actions are ok and all he needs to do is get in a fight and trash the other kid physically and walk away and everything is ok, THIS kid will become an adult believing that physical violence is an ok way to resolve disputes. Eventually, he will grow up and do something truly stupid and end up in JAIL!

[Kokanee]

Originally Posted by Renegade)

At a typical Airsoft game, in play, we are all consenting to suspend a few rights, IE assault with a weapon as one, in the name of the game.

But there is a line that is crossed when you remove consent. Ie:

We're playing airsoft, I consent to you shooting me in line with tagging me "out". If we're playing airsoft, and you have a "beef" with me and close to point blank and full auto me in the face to "teach me a lesson", now consent has been removed and yes, that's assault with a weapon.

We have a bit of a problem with this out in Edmonton here, and at games I run I've had to explicitly explain to players that if they cross that line, the guilty bastard(s) will be turned over to the RCMP.

[lurkingknight]

the airsoft is a game of consent part of the argument people are making is ridiculous. Your consent and willingness to be shot only extends to the live field of play DURING a game, between game whistles. Standing around waiting for a game to start and being lit up from behind is not an action that there was consent given.

I don't stand in a safezone or a parking lot expecting to be shot. I don't stand around the spawn before the game having a gunfight with someone, least of which expect to be lit the fuck up while I'm minding my own business.

You can argue this aspect if this happened during a live game, then you could argue the kid was overshot, but the fact this asshat put up the video and outright admitted it was an intentional action makes this a premeditated assault.

[BioRage]

This reminds of me Siege soft opening, with team XYZ, and 1 XYZ member got hit, so he called "out."

Since he was "out" at the top of the stairs, making his way down, this one asshole thought since he's not moving fast enough, that he was "in the way." Therefore he shoved him from the top of the stairs, which made XYZ member being his downward fall to the bottom of the stairs.

Luckily, he didn't break anything. Just some serious bruising and rage.

Was this considered assault? Yes. Did the victim retaliate? No, he walked it off like a real man.

I guess if you get things on video, and post it on social media, shit just blows up 999x more then it should.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

OT: kids will be kids, these kids look like their 14, they do stupid shit.. this is one of them. FA someone that close is bound to get you in trouble, he knew what he was doing, so let justice do it's job.