Tippmann M4 Carbine Airsoft?

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by Aper

Tell that to all the other manufacturers that makes CO2 and propane mags for their system.

In the world of airsoft, pot metal is the same as cnc as "Stealth" said. And as for CO2 and propane, manufacturers know you are gullible that is why your GBBR guns are pot metal and runs on CO2 or propane with zero warranty.

In the world of paintball, pot metal would never be accepted. All tourney guns are anodized cnc billet aluminium.

[Matt 'Maverick' Watts]

When you look at propellants for any system (paintball or airsoft), CO2 and Propane have some major challenges for long-term sustained use.
Both rely on the conversion of it's liquid state into a gaseous state to create the pressure needed for a marker/gun to shoot. This happens at a very low temperature as both gases are liquid at negative temperatures. This has huge disadvantages in cooler temperatures as it makes it harder for the conversion to reliably occur, not allowing the marker/gun to shoot reliably as the pressure needed to shoot it is not being created.
At hotter temperatures, you run the risk of the conversion happening too much and over-pressurizing it's storage container and causing a catastrophic leak.
There is also the huge worry of getting liquid into the valve area. That liquid rapidly expands, jumping the velocity to dangerous levels as well as rapidly cooling the entire valve system; 2 issues that can be seriously unsafe.
HPA, on the other hand, is simply that; air under high pressure. Think scuba tank, only much smaller. With an approved valve on an hpa tank, the pressure variations are minimal, allowing for much more consistent use at different temperatures.
HPA becomes a much safer, much more reliable power source, with the current drawback being that it requires a larger container and a remote line for use. Could that/will that change in the future? I'm sure it will, it just takes time.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

It is obviously designed for HPA , remote line use, with an " also can run gas in mag" added feature. This adds some versatility, and detracts nothing.

[SuperHog]

Matt,

You stated that the Tippmann M4 uses the Phenom flex-valve to regulate the input air but can you please confirm how it actually regulate it.

My friend just took his Phenom a part today from a game of paintball and I was able to look at the flex-valve in person. All I see is a firing valve with no regulation what so ever. My friend said his operating pressure was actually 750psi (tank reg pressure).

If you regulate the tank reg pressure of 750psi down to 100psi with a secondary reg like the Polarstar one, would the Tippmann M4 even function. Please confirm. That would determine if we are comparing apples to apples with Polarstar/Wolverine.

[Aj619]

I believe the Tippmann will use air restriction not regulation however seeing as I have seen CP regs on 98C's I would say that it would still work however the operating pressure would have to be higher that 100 PSI more like around 130-150 PSI.

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by Aj619

I believe the Tippmann will use air restriction not regulation however seeing as I have seen CP regs on 98C's I would say that it would still work however the operating pressure would have to be higher that 100 PSI more like around 130-150 PSI.

Air restriction is the poor man's way of regulating. Once the tank reg pressure drops below the reg's present, the restrictor can no longer maintain the dropping pressure.

[Aj619]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Air restriction is the poor man's way of regulating. Once the tank reg pressure drops below the reg's present, the restrictor can no longer maintain the dropping pressure.

Yep and you'll get that famous Tippmann 98C fart

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by Aj619

Yep and you'll get that famous Tippmann 98C fart

Spyders also fart.

[Geddon]

Originally Posted by Mcbain500

I think this is a major flaw in the design of the mags and will be a major sticking point for guys that want to buy the gun but, don't want to run a remote line.

$20/mag vs $40-70/mag

The gas retention in the gun is a good alternative. You can buy an extra tippmann mag for every other GBB mag on the market and reloading the Co2 into the mag is literally a 5 second endeavor.

This is a cost/reliability ratio that Tippmann has chosen -- not failed on.

[Aper]

And where did you see those ''20$ mags'' ? Any liable source ?

I don't give a damn if each mag cost half the price of a regular WE one, the problem is i'll have to carry 100 C02 cartridges in a day. Maybe they designed the mag to last a whole C02 cartridge, so I guess they are all midcaps, but what about those like me who like the real cap experience ? What about real cap rules from a host for certain games ? I'll spend 1 C02 cartridge for every 30-35 BBs ? Is that your famous cost-saving method Tippmann chose ?

Tell me more on how this isn't a failure from Tippmann;

[SuperHog]

Unfortunately for Tippmann the internet help players become smarter.

Tippmann may have fool a lot of paintball newbies with their CO2 T98 many years ago, but this time the old blow back design may not work so well against the more refined HPA system like the Polarstar and Wolverine.

[aprogressivone]

Originally Posted by Aper

And where did you see those ''20$ mags'' ? Any liable source ?

I don't give a damn if each mag cost half the price of a regular WE one, the problem is i'll have to carry 100 C02 cartridges in a day. Maybe they designed the mag to last a whole C02 cartridge, so I guess they are all midcaps, but what about those like me who like the real cap experience ? What about real cap rules from a host for certain games ? I'll spend 1 C02 cartridge for every 30-35 BBs ? Is that your famous cost-saving method Tippmann chose ?

Tell me more on how this isn't a failure from Tippmann;

This Week In Airsoft Episode 64 - YouTube

Tippmann has said in previously released videos that the magazines would cost around $20. Another thing to consider is that Tippmann made this as a remote line gun first and a "gas in mag" system second(I use that term loosely). Product engineers were interviewed in the "This week in airsoft" video link I posted above. They said directly out of their mouth they wanted airsoft players unfamiliar with how remote line setups work, to be able to use the gun day 1 out the box without buying anything else. They then stated however that over time they would hope airsofters would become more knowledgeable on remote set ups and switch over to it. Think of this not as a "gas in mag" system but as a weaker recoiling and less realistic version of a daytona gun.

If an airsofter wants tactical reloads or real caps without using a remote line, this gun is not for them. If an airsofter can accept using a remote line, then they can unlock rock solid consistency, usage of cheap aeg magazines ranging from low, mid, to high caps, and having a more reliable rifle than a traditional GBBR or AEG.

[Aper]

Originally Posted by aprogressivone

This Week In Airsoft Episode 64 - YouTube

Tippmann has said in previously released videos that the magazines would cost around $20. Another thing to consider is that Tippmann made this as a remote line gun first and a "gas in mag" system second(I use that term loosely). Product engineers were interviewed in the "This week in airsoft" video link I posted above. They said directly out of their mouth they wanted airsoft players unfamiliar with how remote line setups work, to be able to use the gun day 1 out the box without buying anything else. They then stated however that over time they would hope airsofters would become more knowledgeable on remote set ups and switch over to it. Think of this not as a "gas in mag" system but as a weaker recoiling and less realistic version of a daytona gun.

If an airsofter wants tactical reloads or real caps without using a remote line, this gun is not for them. If an airsofter can accept using a remote line, then they can unlock rock solid consistency, usage of cheap aeg magazines ranging from low, mid, to high caps, and having a more reliable rifle than a traditional GBBR or AEG.

I agree with everything said above. A remote lined gun is a great idea and probably more constant, but this is airsoft.

This gun was designed for who exactly ? The 5% using remote lined guns in Canada ? Bring paintballers out of paintball towards airsoft ? Making old paintball players that joined airsoft for realism to go back to a remote lined setup ? Tippmann failed upon doing a market research before releasing it's official and final product, which is clearly not for the appropriate target group of players here in Canada. But hey ! Maybe it'll be the new trend in a couple of years from now running HPA airsoft guns.

[Danke]

Maybe it's for rental shops that are leaving paintball.

For the folks who (and not just in this thread) become downright ornery when something new is in the pipe and they don't like it I have some advice.

The advice is don't buy it. Full stop. You don't need to constantly freak out about how awful etc. it is and what an affront to God an man that its. Just don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it the product will fail and the folks making it will have to reconsider.

When someone keeps cranking out the long winded fanboy rants about stuff like this all it really says is that you need a girl in your life; or for the real special cases a picture of a girl.

[R.I.T.Z]

Tippmann M4 HPA/CO2 Blowback - First In-Depth Look! - (Part 1) - Airsoft GI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyjT03zo1yY