Elitists -Newbies, please read

[Grizzly0679]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

In every single instance, I've been called an elitist by a newbie who has been involved in the community less than a year. And in every single instance, it's either because (with a couple of exceptions -more on this later) I won't recommend anything below Tokyo Marui or Classic Army as a starter gun, or because I won't recommend cheap equipment as starter equipment (also more on this later). I am in no way alone in this group. I can think of more than a dozen members who have been called “elitists” for the same reasons.

First time someone calls you a horse you punch him on the nose.
The Second time someone calls you a horse you call him a jerk.
The third time someone calls you a horse...well, then perhaps it's time to go shopping for a saddle.

lol, just kidding, I love that quote though. You're not elitist Kalnaren. I never found that and I'm new.

I ask that you new guys consider that, and the other things I've written here, next time you think we're being elitist pricks for telling you that you need to invest more then $200 to get into airsoft.

There are some elitist people, but that's got nothing to do with airsoft. In every group there's always at least one asshole, and if you can't find him then it's probably you! It' just how group dynamics work. You have all sorts of personalities no matter where you go; learning how to handle yourself and those personalities around you is really all a person can do.

Water off a duck's back is what I say. Nobody can hate me as much as myself, lol.

[whisper_kill]

Elitist <--> Newb... everything seems to get 'equalized' in the field to a certain degree. The guy with the loud mouth on ASC seems to 'zip it up' when face-to-face and the newb seems to be a little less of a newb than they may have thought. I'm generalizing a bit... but the bottom line is, are you enjoying the sport and being respectful? You win. The community wins!

[unseen hunter]

Here is my opinion on the "elitist" and "noob" rant. Please understand that this in my opinion on this and I am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours.

Quite honestly, I believe there are conditions to both terms. You could be just entering the sport or have 10+ years into it or even be a retailer and still be a "noob." How is that possible, you ask. Well, here's my theory.....No matter how much experience you have in something, as long as you are still learning and evolving in that area you are a "noob." If your learning has stopped and your evolution in the are has become stagnant you have become an "elitist." Nothing derogatory about either side, at least from me. Personally, I'd much rather be a "noob" with X years experience and continue to learn about everything that's new and exciting. And should you look down on me because I classify myself as a "noob", so be it that is your entitled opinion. At least i can hold my head up and proudly say yes I am!

Take this for what you will, like I said it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The question is can you put as much value in my opinion as I can put in yours. I think, ultimately, thats what this thread is boiling down to and it would seem that some have lost sight of that.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by unseen hunter

Here is my opinion on the "elitist" and "noob" rant. Please understand that this in my opinion on this and I am entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours.

Quite honestly, I believe there are conditions to both terms. You could be just entering the sport or have 10+ years into it or even be a retailer and still be a "noob." How is that possible, you ask. Well, here's my theory.....No matter how much experience you have in something, as long as you are still learning and evolving in that area you are a "noob." If your learning has stopped and your evolution in the are has become stagnant you have become an "elitist." Nothing derogatory about either side, at least from me. Personally, I'd much rather be a "noob" with X years experience and continue to learn about everything that's new and exciting. And should you look down on me because I classify myself as a "noob", so be it that is your entitled opinion. At least i can hold my head up and proudly say yes I am!

Take this for what you will, like I said it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The question is can you put as much value in my opinion as I can put in yours. I think, ultimately, thats what this thread is boiling down to and it would seem that some have lost sight of that.

Actually, it would seem that you're mixing terminology. No idea how old you are.. maybe it's because I'm a young guy who grew up in the 90's with Internet gaming (well, for at least half of it) that I can very much make the distinction between "n00b", "newbie", "experienced", and "elitist". What you describe aren't n00bs and elitists. They're newbies and experienced. Big, big difference.

I don't want this to turn into a semantics/grammar/terminology war, but you did kind of miss the point of my OP.

An experienced player isn't an elitist. An elitist is someone who thinks they're better, or something they use is better, because of some arbitrary value assigned to it (usually monetary, but not always). Because of that many new players associate expensive gear with an elitist attitude and ignore real world experience.

You can draw a parallel in academia. In this example, the arbitrary value assigned is usually based on the perceived value of an academic argument rather than real world experience.

So, well I'd never say your opinion is invalid, you did miss the point.

[BennyBoy]

Kalnaren is doing a favor, he could just tell you to buy shit and then you start crying when your shit fails in your first game. He doesn't suggest top of the line kit but will steer you clear away from bottom of the barrel junk. I can't ever remember him ever advising any beginning to get a PTW or anything else outrageously expensive.

[kalnaren]

I'm just going to add this thread in here to further illustrate my point:

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=149686

[BennyBoy]

I just ordered Revision Asian Locust fan goggles
Broke my DIY fan on my CF surplus ballistic goggles

[Ricochet]

Kalnaren pretty much nailed it. The issue usually stems from individuals throwing around terms in the wrong context, and then the ideals are missed.

A common situation is something like a new or inexperienced player is asking what kit to buy, and saying they have a $200 budget. An experienced player would tell them to save their money and buy a gun in the $300 - $500 range to start and that anything less will likely be garbage. They say this because it's the truth and they know what they are talking about. More importantly they do not wish to see a new player get disappointed when their gear or equipment breaks down, or doesn't shoot straight, or far enough to get a kill, etc. Often times the new player will accuse these individuals of being elitist because they're budget or feelings were not taken into account. The truth however is that no matter what your buying in life no one is going to suggest the cheapest, flimsiest crap to you; and more importantly, airsoft "is" expensive.

An elitist on the other hand will tell you your nobody or not to bother trying unless your wearing Crye, Oakley, whatever, and have a $2500 gun or better.

^
Big difference!

[unseen hunter]

Originally Posted by kalnaren

So, well I'd never say your opinion is invalid, you did miss the point.

I'm not so sure of that. Nevermind the terminology part of my rant, the last part was the response to everything I've read in this thread. Let me rephrase it a little and maybe it might clear it up.

Somebody comes here and asks for an opinion of a particular piece of gear or gun. Based on your experience you respond with your opinion of that piece and maybe suggest a different piece. Due to the price of the suggested piece you are labelled an "elitist." The problem with this is that one party is not putting the value into anothers experienced opinion and thus breakdown to being a closed minded and, maybe, rude individual.

So to me, this all boils down to whether or not someone can value your opinion as an experienced player. When the whole thing devolves to the point of you being dubbed "elitist" obviously they could not. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats the way I've intrepreted this thread.

And as for my age, during the "nitendo generation"(the 90's) I was in/finished highschool

[ThunderCactus]

Back when chinasoft boomed, every noob bought it despite us constantly arguing why you shouldn't, and they called us all elitist
Then 3 months went by, their gun broke, nobody would fix it, nobody could find parts for it, and suddenly they understood WHY it was a bad idea to buy that gun lol

[Danke]

The other missing part of the conversation here is that 9/10 the guy asking is brand XYZ a good gun has already bought it.

When he starts getting the bad new his fur gets up and he starts defending his choice against all reason.

A lot of the new folks are not looking for seasoned advice; they're looking for validation that they've joined the right cool club and when they get the bad new it's not pretty.

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by unseen hunter

Somebody comes here and asks for an opinion of a particular piece of gear or gun. Based on your experience you respond with your opinion of that piece and maybe suggest a different piece. Due to the price of the suggested piece you are labelled an "elitist." The problem with this is that one party is not putting the value into anothers experienced opinion and thus breakdown to being a closed minded and, maybe, rude individual.

So to me, this all boils down to whether or not someone can value your opinion as an experienced player. When the whole thing devolves to the point of you being dubbed "elitist" obviously they could not. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats the way I've intrepreted this thread.

That sounds more like what goes on.

Though I have to admit it hasn't been too bad in the last year or so that airsoft prices have completely tanked.

[m102404]

IMO...the elitists/newbies thing came about more from the groups of: PTW vs. AEG guys and Real-brand name gear vs. "airsoft" brands. And to a lesser extent "good old brands" of AEGs vs. the onslaught of cheaper made clones (e.g. dboys, cyma, aftermath, clear stuff, opaque stuff, various sportlines, etc...).

Newbies take the brunt of things simply because many of the perceived "elitists" have gone through the very learning cycle that the newbie's starting out on.

Both groups (on either side of things) are very opinionated and vehement on their positions. For good or for bad...that's just the Internet.

When a guy comes in saying, "What's the BEST gun"...or "what's the BEST gear"...they're loaded questions that are open to all those opinions. Then the debate (de)evolves into utmost performance vs. good enough...reality vs. hobby...cost vs. budget...expectations vs. reality...my/my-buddy/his experience vs. this/that/other, etc....

Am I picky about what I have and use...yup. PTWs and real gear play a big part of what I reach for when it's game time. If someone asks...that's what I'll say because it's my opinion.

However...I try not to poo-poo someone because they don't want to do that...or can't afford it...or whatever. If the guy asking the question, or anyone else in the thread takes "offense" (too strong a word) to an opinion...that's his problem and nobody elses.

Coming on too strong and saying, "you're an idiot if you don't do this or that" is too far though. But let's face it...any internet forum is filled with idiots of all sorts.

To anyone who bleats..."can't we call just get along nicely"....grow up, that's a nice ideal but not reality.

[Jimski]

is there a correlation between buying lots of airstuff and not playing/chairsofting ?

[J-Man19]

A gear whoring to post count relation may have to be studied.