how much distance will i get if i installed a ak-47 titebore onto my TM commando m733

[CDN_Stalker]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Stalker, you seem to have you shit wired well on ballistics...

I've always assumed that tightbore barrels with a weighted BB (.25 or better) wouldn't necessarily give you a significant distance advantage, but would give you more of a tighter grouping on the target. Am I right or wrong on this? I base this on observing that my M16A4 with the Prometheus TB and .25 BB Bastards, I get terrific distance and grouping at the target - less so with my C8 which also has a chopped down tightbore, but stops about 15ft short of the M16A4 with a wider grouping. .20 goes very wide and much shorter than the .25

BTW, I've used that walk-in trick as well (poor Titan, he was stunned) and it never fails to amaze someone when you hit them at an insane distance, but its really just an old pballer lobbing trick that I always feel sheepish about using afterwards.

Blame it on my constant tinkering and experimenting with sniper rifles, trying to get the best range and accuracy. My GBB work was pretty much the fact one training day with team mates using pistols only, I couldn't hit a team mate 40ft away with my G19 using 0.25g BBs, call it a bit over hop on them, so I swore never again unless I needed (as in reloading GBB mags in the field from my AEG mags.) Since I had quite a selection of BBs to try out from my sniper ammo collection, I tried 0.36g one day and was stunned I could dump rounds on a 55 gallon drum (lying prone) 120ft away, and since then been studying GBB ballistics with heavier ammo.

Only thing that heavier BBs will give you for range is greater stability. Meaning, hop up will keep the BBs on course for longer, will be more resistant to air currents it passes through (takes more air density, aka. eddies, light winds, etc.) making it more accurate at longer ranges. Case in point, a lighter BB will be more susceptable to fly off course sooner. One thing that isn't mentioned about the benefits of hop up (only that it creates lift and helps BBs fly farther) is that hop up also decreases drag. If the BB isn't spinning while flying, the boudary layers or airflow around it's surface separates near the rear of the BB, causing vorticies to occur which basically acts as suction. Spin the BB, airflow around the BB will be smoother with a greatly reduced amount of drag, and will create higher pressure on the bottom front thhan the top, giving the lift. Heavier BBs require more hop up, which would, in my mind, increase the rate of spin on the BB. Make the fps higher, the faster the spin on the BBs, therefore a reduction in hop up is needed to keep it stable. Keep in mind this is just me thinking, I don't have windtunnel tests to prove it (but hey, I DO have access to windtunnels through work, wouldn't THAT be an amazing thread of information?!!) So nutshell is, there is a threshold in fps that makes 0.20g BBs more attractive to use, but really only in controlled environments (I wouldn't hesitate to use 0.20g indoords with short distances).

On thing that I've been saying for a while, in regards to lighter/faster BBs vs heavier/slower BBs is there are two different types of "range", and a lot of people tend to focus on the first, that lighter will go faster and travel farther. Look at it this way, there is range = where the BBs lands vs. range = effective range to hit man-sized targets. I focus on the latter, some only really only think of the first one and just accept it's poor performance at longer ranges as being part of the airsoft experience.

Here's a great thread that got very interesting after a while regarding airsoft ballistics.

http://warmongers.dyndns.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=569

I've also written some stickies of info for people, one includes trying to expalin airsoft ballistics to team mates and other interested parties.

http://warmongers.dyndns.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=31

Hey, can any of you that are smarter that I am in mathematics figure out a formula to find what rate of spin certain amounts of hop up at certain velocities would be? I've always been curious the rate at which a BB spins. If I can sort that out, I might be able to get some contacts to borrow some windtunnel time to get some footage of airflow around spinning balls.

[Greylocks]

The main problem with airsoft ballistics (and that throws folks who know regular rifle ballistics) is the combination of factors that dont normally mesh.

First; smoothbore barrels. They do not behave the same way as rifled. Add to that a round ammunition, a back-spin system, and various ammo weights. It's enough to give experts a headache.

To best understand airsoft ballistics, you have to think about shotguns firing slugs instead or even look at muskets.

So... bear with me, here is what 'normally' would happen. A tightbore will improve accuracy, not really range.
A tightbore may also increase the velocity because there is less air to escape around the BB as it goes down the barrel.

The heavyer weights will behave differently after they leave the barrel. How much depends on tons of factors.
Can things be said with certainty for all guns? No. And that too is something unusual in the ballistic world.

What everyone has to do is experiment within some basic parameters with their own gun, then learn from it. Some tricks will apply in general, but nothing is going to work for everyone.

I've seen stock guns outperform upgraded ones with all kinds of bells and whistles.

I guess my point is that there is no point except to test stuff yourself. Stalker did.

should point out that stock guns can use the twist barrels for wickid sick accuracy and range(according to illusion)

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Droc

should point out that stock guns can use the twist barrels for wickid sick accuracy and range(according to illusion)

Has anyone got any experience with rifled barrels on an airsoft gun - I saw that mentioned somewhere here some time ago and was interested in following it up to see if it was a viable option for improving the accuracy and grouping - didn't think much about range though, I just assumed it would not be significant enough to be remarkable.

Illusion uses them in his GBBs and he swears by them. I dont know much about them in AEGs because they are hard to find, but word has it, they loose their effect if the gun shoots over 320fps. Why, I dont know.
Illusion mentioned he was going to grab a bunch when he could.

[blueballz]

thanks for everybodys input~! i jus picked up my silencer the other day..i got a used classic army socom 7 inch silencer. i should be getting my km ak47 tite bore this weekend. i will post up the results shortly.
...or should i get a promethius? if no comments..then km it is.

[blueballz]

i went ahead and installed a prometheus titebore. but now i have a quick question. which cylynder works best with the ak47 titebore? i was recommended the type-0 cylinder (m16 and the aug) what type comes stock with ak47 guns anyways? right now i have a m4 cylinder in my m733. i think the cylinder that came with my m733 is a type -0 ...i may still have that layin around.

[blueballz]

well, i went with the prometheus titebore. i can tell you guys that with the m4 cylinder...it did not increase my fps at all. im hoping once i put in the type -0 (non ported) ill get a lil increase.I would like to add, even tho with the m4 cylinder, I didnt increase any fps...but it did give me bout 20ft. more range..and super accurate! im very impressed! I was prettty much hitting a basketball size area everytime bout 150ft away. it might be not too good compared to your guns..but it was a hecka big difference before the titeborehhaha.
oh, whoever is reading this..please look at my other post ..."what cylinder i need for a AK-47?" i have a few questions on there that maybe you guys can answer. thanks !

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Has anyone got any experience with rifled barrels on an airsoft gun - I saw that mentioned somewhere here some time ago and was interested in following it up to see if it was a viable option for improving the accuracy and grouping - didn't think much about range though, I just assumed it would not be significant enough to be remarkable.

I use them in my P226, both my hi-capas (and in my 3rd hi-capa being built) and I also found a couple 364mm and 510mm length ones while I was in Hong Kong. I'm waiting for those AEG ones to arrive so that I can test them in my 400fps guns.

I once read a technical note somewhere, (I believe it was on a Japanese site) that indicated that these barrels were meant for guns that shoot 1J or less, however the one I have in my 360fps Hi-Capa seems to work fine and it gets incredible range, accuracy and a wicked flat trajectory.

[blueballz]

ok well I have everything installed in my gun now so I just needa test it out.
can you guys tell me if this will be a accurate way to check the distance/range gained with my AK47 titebore.

my fren has a commando m733 as well and his gun shoots jus nearly the same fps as mine and has the same upgrades without the titebore...although he DOES have a titebore..but its for the commando m733.
so what we re thinkin is, we both turn our hop up off and then just see if my gun shoots any further than his gun....what you guys think...will this work..?

one person said no, theres too many variables and said a chronograph is my best bet.
but I am gonna chonograph it still...but I wanna know the extra range I got not the fps. so is there a good way so we can actually test the distance I gained from the AK47 titebore?

[CDN_Stalker]

Shoot at trees? Tightbores aren't installed to increase distance or fps, only for more consistant shots. You might gain an extra 10fps from a tightbore, but yo ureally need to just set up a target 30-50ft away and make groups, aiming at the same spot. Comapre the stock barrel'd gun and the upgraded one for the tightest groups across like 10-20 shots. Only way to test if a tightbore is improving things.

[blueballz]

no im positive im shooting WAY more accurate now...i can tell for sure..hehee.
but for sum reason...i do feel like i gained more range tho..it might be my eyes playin tricks on me, but it seems like i gained 20+ft. i would shoot this tree in the field by my house and before the titebore, i would just hit it or it would drop right before it hit the tree, but now...i can hit the tree no prob. plus it can go past it by like 20 ft. it maybe my hopup as well...but its not lobbing there or spinning up to it...its goin straight.
i was told that longer barrels to shoot a lil more range and thats why i got a longer AK-47 titebore. cus then i woulda/shoulda just bought a titebore for a m733.

[CDN_Stalker]

Use 0.25g BBs, and aim a bit higher for range. Pretty simple, works wonders for real steel, don't be shy about doing it in airsoft, it's a requirement (anyone that bitches are you tell them to 'F' off and do what you need to do, most that will tell you that you are cheating are either chairsofters or paint-bawlers/whiners), like I've said for anything, for projectiles flying through the air, no matter what they are.

[blueballz]

heheh i already am using .25's and aiming higher at times needed. haha cant help it if the field is large.

[CDN_Stalker]

Nope, can't help if the wind is working against you either! Makes things more challenging, just get the impression you are expecting way more out of a longer tightbore than you will actually acheive.