G&P M4A1 - Opinions requested

[Tahna Los]

I am in the market for a new stock AEG and am planning on getting an M4A1. Originally, I was going to purchase the TM M4A1 New-Type (which is supposed to have the barrel wobble issue addressed), however, I've had a few retailers swear up and down on a stack of bibles saying that the new G&P revision is better as it is full metal with reinforced mechbox and gears. One also said that several SnowDragons have purchased this gun and they have not been dissappointed yet.

However, some other airsofters have said that a previous revision of this same gun has major wiring issues compared to the TM and suggest going TM instead. They also say that the wiring issues were not addressed in the newer version. The retailers say they haven't heard anything about wiring issues in either G&P revision.

Can anyone shed any light on this? What exactly are these so-called wiring issues?

Thanks.

[mcguyver]

There are NO wiring issues in G&P guns that I've ever seen and I've worked on dozens of them. Here are some things that I've found in some (but not all):

1) Some of the G&P guns in Canada have been upgraded to shoot 450-475 FPS at either the manufacturing or distribution level. This has lead to premature failure on some components like gears and piston/piston head. The piston is a polycarb and that is IMHO one of the weakest parts of a 450 FPS system.

2) Tappet and selector plate failure. This is a problem as G&P uses a clone of a Prometheus hard selector and tappet, which is a poly-amide composite. They are lightweight and strong, but do not allow for any flex. If the tappet flexes, it will break.

3) Nozzle. They use a metal air-seal nozzle with an o-ring inside to give it a very good seal. Keeps air losses from the cylinder system to a minimum. However, this nozzle is too tight for the cylinder head and this has caused many a tappet to fail. Removing the o-ring will solve that potential problem, but at the cost of a flawless air-seal.

4) Motor position. They motor must sit in a very specific position. The wiring must be routed in a precise fashion with bends at exactly the righ spots or the motor will be slightly shifted and bind up. You can not rely on the motor endplate to seat the motor precisely enough. Consequently, a large sudden jarring to the gun can cause the motor to be thrown out of alignment, requiring re-alignment which is not really field-freindly.

Now the good points:

1) 7mm reinforced bearing gear box. Can't go wrong there.

2) Reinforced stanard ratio gears.

3) Beefy metal bearing spring guide.

4) Tapered full capacity cylinder.

5) Steel cylinder head.

6) Low-resistance switch assembly.

7) Metal hop-up chamber.

Very good fit and finsh of body components and very solid construction.

Once you get past a few minor issues, they tend to run very well and are very accurate and potentially powerful guns. They only recommendations I have for changes to this gun are:

1) Remove the air-seal o-ring.

2) Replace the tappet with something else, perhaps even a stock Marui.

3) Replace the cylinder head set with a Systema silent head set. If you do this you can keep the o-ring in the nozzle and it is not too tight.

The magic FPS for longevity, range and accuracy seems to be around 390 FPS. Less does not take the gun to it's potential and more just causes stress on some components and may lead to failure.

[Tahna Los]

3) Nozzle. They use a metal air-seal nozzle with an o-ring inside to give it a very good seal. Keeps air losses from the cylinder system to a minimum. However, this nozzle is too tight for the cylinder head and this has caused many a tappet to fail. Removing the o-ring will solve that potential problem, but at the cost of a flawless air-seal.

One of the retailers I spoke to says that this problem has been addressed in the newer versions of the G&P M4A1

4) Motor position. They motor must sit in a very specific position. The wiring must be routed in a precise fashion with bends at exactly the righ spots or the motor will be slightly shifted and bind up. You can not rely on the motor endplate to seat the motor precisely enough. Consequently, a large sudden jarring to the gun can cause the motor to be thrown out of alignment, requiring re-alignment which is not really field-freindly.

I think this is the wiring issue that my fellow airsofters spoke about. They mentioned that taking apart this gun is a bitch as all the wires need to go into a specific place or they muck up your motor. And it is hard to return the wiring to the original position.

But have they addressed this issue in the recent variations?

I am however, a little spooked about the high FPS rate. I don't want to go into games hoping to play with my new toy only to find out it is hot out of the box. Any suggestions to possibly deal with this?

[wey ferro]

put a lower spring in it

[Anduril]

or put a velocity reducer on it :P

[mcguyver]

What is your location, Canada or U.S. or elsewhere. It may make a difference whether you get a gun at 450 FPS or 350 FPS.

As for the motor wiring position, it's real easy and intuitive how it goes together. Make notes when you take it apart and put it back the same way.

But really, there's no need to take it apart, unless it breaks. Guys get on the " I gotz to upGrayD it" kick and clearly with G&P this is not warranted. The parts quality is great right out of the box and upgrades are a waste of time and money with this gun.

G&P builds their guns with a good deal of precision and things must line up perfectly in all areas of assembly or you'll have trouble. Nobody, save Systema, uses that much precision in manufacturing of AEG's that I've ever seen. Small misalignments have led to non-functional guns, as I recently discovered.

[JoelBrown/ArC]

i was actually trying to decide which of the 2 i wanted, sounds G&P is clearly a better gun. Regardless in the long run all guns are going to have some problem.

[Tahna Los]

I'm located in Toronto, Ontario. If I'm going to by a G&P M4A1, I will most likely buy it at 6mm as it is the only store that I know of that sells this rifle. What I have heard is that the gun is super-durable, most likely because it comes with a full metal body. It's on the top of my list right now.

[freeman]

2) Replace the tappet with something else, perhaps even a stock Marui.

If you replace the tapplet with a Marui or Guarder one,you have to replace all gears as well.right?

[manchovie]

g&p m4's come with the large nub sector gear. the lump that pulls the tappet back is extra large (at least 5x the area of the marui for smooth pull) so the tappet has a certain shape to it as well. if you modify a guarder or marui tappet you'd have to modify it, swapping the gears seems pointless to me.

Originally Posted by Tahna Los

I'm located in Toronto, Ontario. If I'm going to by a G&P M4A1, I will most likely buy it at 6mm as it is the only store that I know of that sells this rifle. What I have heard is that the gun is super-durable, most likely because it comes with a full metal body. It's on the top of my list right now.

I dont know 6mm, but they are not listed on the canadian retailers list...prolly for a reason.

talk to extreme percision http://www.air-soft.com/ {website is fubar} I know for a fact they just got a buncha G&P G&G and CA guns in stock. no to to mention they are cheaper most of the time. Dont listen to the bullshit people say about extreme percision. if you cant get anything through the website, talk to peterkang2@hotmail.com

just so you know, most retailers have a very limited stock and selection, but for the most part, simply asking a retailer can solve your problems. A retailer can order you guns that they dont have listed.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by freeman

If you replace the tapplet with a Marui or Guarder one,you have to replace all gears as well.right?

I've replace them with Guarder, Systema and Marui and have done no mods whatsoever to the tappets or gear changes. No failures to feed, misfires or doublefeeds and some of these guns have had many thousands of rounds through them afterwards.