G&G M14's

[DEA]

Alright guys, lets hear it from the ones actually dealing with them. What is the problem with the G&G M14's? Are the majority of the ones out there just simply breaking down fairly quickly?

I personally have been off the feild for a long while now, so I see from the business perspective, and that tells me I still have 7 or 8 of them laying around that have been here for a while now. So what is the main problem with these G&G M14's? Any info would be helpful.

Almost time to Clear these out just to get them off the shelves!

[DanQuayle]

Originally Posted by DEA

Alright guys, lets hear it from the ones actually dealing with them. What is the problem with the G&G M14's? Are the majority of the ones out there just simply breaking down fairly quickly?

There were two players in my area who used to have them, both of the M14's broke after about 3 months.

[sam0182]

"Alright guys, lets hear it from the ones actually dealing with them. What is the problem with the G&G M14's?"

They aren't TM 8-O

I'd clear those gg's for cost+whatever you can get for them and toss the cash back into TM m14 inventory.

[markedman]

The problem with the G&G M14 could be as simple as poor initial reviews in regards to durability. I have read almost an even mix of good / bad reviews. Sadly the bad reviews came out first. Those were the ones that prompted me to get the TM M14 instead (which is an excellent gun) :tup:
As a Dealer, in all honesty if you were buying an M14 to take onto the field, Would you buy the G&G?

[mcguyver]

i've just openned one up and i must say that it was different. the main problem that i see with the m14 and every other g&g i've worked on including the umg is assembly. the patrs the use are on par with tm and some are slightly better. but they put in a stronger spring than stock tm (by how much i'm not certain, but it appears to be probably about 20% stronger or so). they use plastic bushings, which are ok if the spring is stock and the gears aren't subject to strong lateral loading. metal bushings i think are really called for in this case. also the mechboxes i've worked on were not shimmed properly (in the umg, this caused the sector gear to run underneath the tappet and not properly engage it, but did not cause damage to the tappet) and in the m14 it caused some unnecessary wear to gears with only a 6 mags worth thru it or so. the other problem is lubrication. they used white lithium grease in all areas (gears and cylinder) and this stuff breaks down quickly, reacts withmetal componets in the gear box, turns to a black, sticky sludge with zero lubrication capacity. in the m14 it caused enough resistance to the motion of the piston that the piston teeth were just obliterated. i don't think that there really is a "fatal design flaw" with g&g products per se, but their assembly sucks. as a retailer i would suggest from a relaibility perspective that you tear down every g&g gun you bring in and re-shim and change to proper lubrication and evrthing should be fine. you may find this time consuming and adds increased unit cost for these guns, but it will keep your customers happy and give you less grief. these are just my experiences though and others may have had just stunning success with g&g. but ive done about 6 g&g guns in just the last 2 months with all the same types of problems.

[eggman51]

Having owned one I would say:

positives:
- for the most part uses off the shelf parts for upgrading (as opposed to many v7 specific parts for the Marui M14)
- outstanding external build quality
- great customer service from G&G

negatives:
- bad hopup
- heavy trigger pull, even after installing replacement parts from G&G
- hicap mags were finicky
- expensive
- TM M14 getting great reviews
- G&G M14 got quite a few poor initial reviews due to some QC issues and a couple of minor design / assembly issues (imo mostly just poor QC trying to rush it out before TM on top of generally suspect QC with all G&G products)

I sold mine for a great price (I got it for a great price) to a guy who was primarily a collector and did not intend to skirmish with it much.

egg

[DEA]

This is very helpful guys. Thank you. Just to bring up a quick note, especially to you mcguyver, you may find interesting. G&G are very aware of there "design flaws" or whatever you want to call it, and to my surprise, are stepping up, and bringing a solution to the table! Not specific with the M14, but with their M series. As we speak, they have stepped up, and have informed us (being one of their customers) that they are sending us (Double Edge) 30 fully assembled complete gearboxes. These are brand new versions, with what they tell me, all their previous flaws addressed. This truely showed me that They realized they had issues, owned up to their issues, and came to the table to try and rectify their issues. In the last 6 years of selling, this is the first time any manufacturer has taken this kind of step. Says alot to me personally about the company.
I'm not really sure what they are sending any of the other retailers, but this is just me alone they are send 30 of them to.
Anyways, thanks again guys, and believe me when I say, the guys such as ICS, G&G ect... in competition with TM do truly put a lot of work into it, and try very hard to bring you all good products. They do care! I have oppertunity to speak with these guys every week, and they are some really good people.

[Tom_Keeler]

I think that G&G is improving rather quickly truthfully. Good customer service in sending out those gearboxes, and I'm sure they get the message about QC now... it'd be much cheaper for them to take quality control seriously at the factory than it would be to send replacement parts out all over the place.

[mcguyver]

this is a good step to see a company do this. anybody can make a mistake or oversight, but not everybody is willing to admit it let alone rectify it at their own expense.it would be interesting to see the end result of all this. please keep us posted from the DEA.

btw, are they going to let you know if they will have something for the m14, or is this just a preliminary step with more info to follow?

[DEA]

I will find out for you about G&G M14's for you. However, I have been in heavy talks all week with ICS. It's funny how this all seems to be coming down at the same time. ICS is showing great concern and interest with our Canadian Marketplace. They in all honesty, very much care about our market, and their product quality. Just 5 min. ago, I agreed to help them find out from you, the people in our market, exactly what people think of their product. They truly want to know from us what, from the barrel to the internals of the mech box, are any and everything that is not up to par on there guns. They want to know what the flaws are, and what is good and what is bad in detail, so they can take steps to improve all of these. We have a chance here, as the general airsoft community in Canada, to give our 100% honest opinions on the good and the bad, and we have the actual manufacturer's full attention! They are turly striving to get their product line to surpass TM, and they are willing to do what it takes.

I have much more to discuss with them in the next few days, but I am even shooting to have them directly impliment some kind of warranty. If that would come into play directly from ICS themselves, and it does not give the consumer some confidence, then nothing will

I have been blown away this last week with the interest and concern in our small market (relatively speaking) ICS has been showing. I have a long relationship with them now, and have gotten to know them well, and I personally see this as nothing short of 100% legit concern.

I will keep you updated, and pending the end results of the talks here in the next day or two, will maybe even post something on their behalf on General.

[mcguyver]

it's funny that with all the talk about tm in canada few have really taken ics seriously. i know there are guys out there with their guns that either love them for their features (metal body, hi-cap mag, 2-part mechbox on their m4) or hate them for their inability to take large upgrades on the m4 series or their use of proprietary parts in some key areas, their "sometimes motor problems" and their higher initial cost than tm guns. i think alot of these issues can be overlooked in a larger picture.

most guns that are purchased will remain stock and not be upgraded unless a failure prompts the owner to change something. as long as the gun works most people will never invest the money in upgrades. many serious players will though as many can do the work themselves. put for those who want a metal body on their gun and one that has definite performance improvements over a stock tm for a little more money, ics fits the bill. i own an ics m4 r.i.s. with 10,000+rounds thru it with no problems and no issues. perhaps i may want somewhat more velocity out of it than i get currently (380 fps vs. the stock 330), but it's not a pressing issue as it has good accuracy and range already. the idea of the 2-part mechbox makes the upgrade easy and quick with the use of their upper mechbox performance kits. imagine ugrading your gun in under 30sec. in the feild with no tools! sounds like slick engineering to me.

basically, i'm a fan of ics and would recommend their guns without reservation. this is tempered somewhat by their lack of a diverse product line. their ak74 will probably be a winner, but it has to make it to the market first. also they should look at bringing some unique guns to market as tm has done to secure their place as the top manufacturer of affordable and value-added guns.